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Toploader
#1
Thought the toploader was bulletproof. But I learned the hard way. Just buy new parts and try again. Do not know why it happened it was completely renovated when I bought it. And it has not rolled many miles.
// Thomas


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#2
Very unusual failure. Contact this company http://www.4speedtoploaders.com for information about what could cause this failure and for replacement parts.
Chuck
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#3
I notice in your picture, the shifter mechanism has the boot around it. I bought and tried to fit one for a 70 Mustang as they (NPD) don't list one for the 71-73. It didn't fit. Mind you, I was on my back under the car. I know that my 71 did have one as parts of it remained.
Does the 70 part actually fit the 71? If not are the now available as repops?
Geoff.
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#4
A rare failure indeed. 4th gear?  No real way to tell at this point but I'd guess one of the teeth got chipped and failed under use. Those gears are very hard so they would need to likely get a crack from being dropped or forced together during assembly from someone unfamiliar with toploader assembly techniques. Complete renovation was unlikely because all the kits I've seen over the past 10 years have used plastic thrust washers. The metal copper lined ones may have simply been reused based on the preference of the builder, but if they were reused then what else was reused? The tarnished color of the brass synchronizer rings eluded to this transmission refurbishment not being recent and in my experience this was merely a cosmetic restoration.
Mike
__________________________________
Black 1985 GT
Yellow 1973 Mustang Mach 1
Black 2012 5.0 GT, 6-speed, Brembo brakes, 3.73's
Wimbledon White 1966 F-100 Shortbed Styleside, 352, Tremec 3550, FiTech EFI
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#5
(08-12-2017, 07:35 PM)MeZapU Wrote: A rare failure indeed. 4th gear?  No real way to tell at this point but I'd guess one of the teeth got chipped and failed under use. Those gears are very hard so they would need to likely get a crack from being dropped or forced together during assembly from someone unfamiliar with toploader assembly techniques.  Complete renovation was unlikely because all the kits I've seen over the past 10 years have used plastic thrust washers. The metal copper lined ones may have simply been reused based on the preference of the builder, but if they were reused then what else was reused?  The tarnished color of the brass synchronizer rings eluded to this transmission refurbishment not being recent and in my experience this was merely a cosmetic restoration.

I WILL GET YOU SOURCE TOMORROW FOR ANY TOPLOADER PART YOU NEED.

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??
Tongue
David
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#6
(08-12-2017, 12:22 PM)c9zx Wrote: Very unusual failure. Contact this company http://www.4speedtoploaders.com for information about what could cause this failure and for replacement parts.
Chuck

That seems to be a well-sorted company, should contact them.
Thanks for the tip !
// Thomas
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#7
(08-12-2017, 07:12 PM)Stanglover Wrote: I notice in your picture, the shifter mechanism has the boot around it. I bought and tried to fit one for a 70 Mustang as they (NPD) don't list one for the 71-73. It didn't fit. Mind you, I was on my back under the car. I know that my 71 did have one as parts of it remained.
Does the 70 part actually fit the 71? If not are the now available as repops?
Geoff.

The one in the picture is bought repro to 70 Mustang!
Bought two so I have a similar to my 70 Boss.
// Thomas
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#8
(08-12-2017, 07:35 PM)MeZapU Wrote: A rare failure indeed. 4th gear?  No real way to tell at this point but I'd guess one of the teeth got chipped and failed under use. Those gears are very hard so they would need to likely get a crack from being dropped or forced together during assembly from someone unfamiliar with toploader assembly techniques.  Complete renovation was unlikely because all the kits I've seen over the past 10 years have used plastic thrust washers. The metal copper lined ones may have simply been reused based on the preference of the builder, but if they were reused then what else was reused?  The tarnished color of the brass synchronizer rings eluded to this transmission refurbishment not being recent and in my experience this was merely a cosmetic restoration.
It is the input shaft as well as the corresponding drive on cluster gear that has broken.
It was renovated over 15 years ago, I bought it in 2004 so it's been a while since it was renovated. It was lying in the garage for a long time before the car was ready. Both the input and output shaft are new and it turns out that gear has not gone a lot. Looks new. So there is probably no bad renovation. However, it appears that the input shaft is a 3piece unit, do not know if they were worse than org 1 piece that apparently is available today.
But I'll ask David Kee!
// Thomas
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#9
(08-13-2017, 03:43 AM)Thomas Wrote:
(08-12-2017, 07:12 PM)Stanglover Wrote: I notice in your picture, the shifter mechanism has the boot around it. I bought and tried to fit one for a 70 Mustang as they (NPD) don't list one for the 71-73. It didn't fit. Mind you, I was on my back under the car. I know that my 71 did have one as parts of it remained.
Does the 70 part actually fit the 71? If not are the now available as repops?
Geoff.

The one in the picture is bought repro to 70 Mustang!
Bought two so I have a similar to my 70 Boss.
// Thomas

 Interesting! Personally, I could see no reason why the 70 version would NOT fit as it is the same box and shifter mechanism, although the opening in the tunnel may be slightly different. From what I remember, the opening in the rubber boot where it goes around the levers was not the same as the remains I took out on the 71. These are not cheap parts, but I may look at one again as I don't like the unprotected mechanism. However, the owner of the shop where my box was rebuilt, prefers not to use them as they can hold dirt in and cause damage to the mechanism. Hmmm!
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#10
Good morning. The toploader is a strong transmission for sure but by no means bullet proof. My X broke third gear in one with a stock 351 with stock tires. If you have big tires they will break pretty easily.
Contact Dan Williams. http://www.toploadertransmissions.com/to...rinfo.html
He has built thousands of them and keeps all the components to rebuilt to any spec you want. He will have the big input shafts and all the special pieces to beef up the transmission for you. He built toploaders for the racers for many years. He states that there are 133 different variations of the Ford 4 speed so you never know what you got. He also has the multi piece input shaft that allows only the defective part to be replaced, syncro, gear or shaft. Can also change ratio with it.

I have one of the easy to break models. It is from early production of the mustang 1964 1/2 that was only built for about 90 days. They actually did a recall they broke so easy. The output shaft was only 25 splines and would break with just a 289 4-V so Ford went to a larger 28 spline output shaft for 1965 models. It is one of the oddities of the 1964 1/2 models that you never hear about. But if you had a 1964 1/2 D code 289 4-V you got the 25 spline 4 speed. If you own of the few that got 289 HP you got 28 splines. The case only has 4 bolt holes in the pattern for the bell housing.
This is link to catalog for just parts. He will build the transmission for you if you want. http://www.toploadertransmissions.com/catalog.html
You would need to go with the much better transmission like NASCAR uses to get a more dependable model. There are also several different manual transmissions the drag racers use for big HP.. The straight cut gears are much stronger but are very noisy.
The toploader will break and keep breaking it was not made for the horsepower you can pull from today's technology and tires.
Good luck but plan on it breaking again there is always a weak link and if you have the HP and traction something is going to break.

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??
Tongue
David
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