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Top loader problem...HELP!!!
#1
I pulled this transmission when I started the engine rebuild. The only thing I did to it was replace the oils seals on the front and rear and refill with new grease. I did not move the shift levers. Now that it's back on the engine and in the car, it seems there is a gear locked up, I think 4th. I lay under the car and have all three levers in neutral. I can turn the drive shaft by hand ( but the clutch pedal is being held down by a wood block wedged against another piece of wood in front of the seat). I can turn the shift levers with a wrench. Each time I click the lever to a gear, the driveshaft obviously will then, not turn. I get Reverse and neutral. I get 1st, neutral, 2nd. I get 3rd, neutral and then it seems (feels like) to turn to 4th, but will not lock in and I can still turn the driveshaft. With the transmission in reverse, I held the clutch in and started the engine. I started to release the clutch slowly and the engine started to bog down. Immediately pushed the clutch in and shut off the engine. Went back underneath and the result is what I mentioned earlier.
Sorry for this long post, but I've been trying to work this out for some time, hoping I wouldn't have to pull the transmission again, though I think that will have to be done. I always get good suggestions and help from this forum. If any of you transmission guys can help me out, I would appreciate it very much.

[Image: funny_pictures_pony_mechanic_e1263615472847.png]

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#2
(02-08-2017, 05:20 PM)yellowmach351 Wrote: I pulled this transmission when I started the engine rebuild. The only thing I did to it was replace the oils seals on the front and rear and refill with new grease. I did not move the shift levers. Now that it's back on the engine and in the car, it seems there is a gear locked up, I think 4th. I lay under the car and have all three levers in neutral. I can turn the drive shaft by hand ( but the clutch pedal is being held down by a wood block wedged against another piece of wood in front of the seat). I can turn the shift levers with a wrench. Each time I click the lever to a gear, the driveshaft obviously will then, not turn. I get Reverse and neutral. I get 1st, neutral, 2nd. I get 3rd, neutral and then it seems (feels like) to turn to 4th, but will not lock in and I can still turn the driveshaft. With the transmission in reverse, I held the clutch in and started the engine. I started to release the clutch slowly and the engine started to bog down. Immediately pushed the clutch in and shut off the engine. Went back underneath and the result is what I mentioned earlier.
Sorry for this long post, but I've been trying to work this out for some time, hoping I wouldn't have to pull the transmission again, though I think that will have to be done. I always get good suggestions and help from this forum. If any of you transmission guys can help me out, I would appreciate it very much.

When you removed the front bearing retainer if the input shaft moved forward enough to disengage it from the output shaft, it would allow the roller bearings in the input shaft to fall out, that might cause the problem you described. Just a possibility. Chuck
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#3
release the clutch.. drive shaft should turn in neutral only.

Try each gear one at a time should lock up driveline.

I believe it is possible in certain situations to get the trans in reverse and another gear
at the same time which will lock up the trans.... it has happened to me. I used to run
a Mr Gasket verticle Gate shifter back in the day and could lock the trans in reverse and another
gear more times than I would like to remember. (reverse had its own lever)

report back on findings.

Paul
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#4
(02-08-2017, 09:00 PM)rocket366 Wrote: release the clutch.. drive shaft should turn in neutral only.

Try each gear one at a time should lock up driveline.

I believe it is possible in certain situations to get the trans in reverse and another gear
at the same time which will lock up the trans.... it has happened to me.  I used to run
a Mr Gasket verticle Gate shifter back in the day and could lock the trans in reverse and another
gear more times than I would like to remember. (reverse had its own lever)

report back on findings.

Paul

I will be back on it tomorrow. I think you are correct in that I have a couple gears locked....I seem to remember reading somewhere, that could happen. c9zx had a good point, but I tried to be very careful when I pulled that retainer and don't remember anything unusual, but I'll be sure to check it. I will unfortunately pull the transmission tomorrow after I try what you suggested. If it doesn't want to turn in neutral with the clutch released, I assume I have to bite the bullet and do it...unless you had some other way of releasing them, when this would happen to you.

[Image: funny_pictures_pony_mechanic_e1263615472847.png]

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#5
Hmm. Did you replace the top cover gasket?

I would also try to reset the shift levers. Often one can get bumped and knocked out of alignment. You could try your troubleshooting again but loosen the adjustment nuts so that you are certain they are all truly in their neutral position.

Mike
__________________________________
Black 1985 GT
Yellow 1973 Mustang Mach 1
Black 2012 5.0 GT, 6-speed, Brembo brakes, 3.73's
Wimbledon White 1966 F-100 Shortbed Styleside, 390ci, Tremec 3550, FiTech EFI
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#6
(02-08-2017, 10:06 PM)yellowmach351 Wrote:
(02-08-2017, 09:00 PM)rocket366 Wrote: release the clutch.. drive shaft should turn in neutral only.

Try each gear one at a time should lock up driveline.

I believe it is possible in certain situations to get the trans in reverse and another gear
at the same time which will lock up the trans.... it has happened to me.  I used to run
a Mr Gasket verticle Gate shifter back in the day and could lock the trans in reverse and another
gear more times than I would like to remember. (reverse had its own lever)

report back on findings.

Paul

I will be back on it tomorrow. I think you are correct in that I have a couple gears locked....I seem to remember reading somewhere, that could happen. c9zx had a good point, but I tried to be very careful when I pulled that retainer and don't remember anything unusual, but I'll be sure to check it. I will unfortunately pull the transmission tomorrow after I try what you suggested. If it doesn't want to turn in neutral with the clutch released, I assume I have to bite the bullet and do it...unless you had some other way of releasing them, when this would happen to you.
I released the clutch and with all levers in neutral, the drive shaft will NOT turn. I am draining the tailshaft and in the next day or two, I will pull the transmission to see what's going on. Any suggestions of anything in particular to look for? hopefully once I pull the top plate, I will be able to see the problem.

[Image: funny_pictures_pony_mechanic_e1263615472847.png]

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#7
(02-09-2017, 06:45 PM)yellowmach351 Wrote:
(02-08-2017, 10:06 PM)yellowmach351 Wrote:
(02-08-2017, 09:00 PM)rocket366 Wrote: release the clutch.. drive shaft should turn in neutral only.

Try each gear one at a time should lock up driveline.

I believe it is possible in certain situations to get the trans in reverse and another gear
at the same time which will lock up the trans.... it has happened to me.  I used to run
a Mr Gasket verticle Gate shifter back in the day and could lock the trans in reverse and another
gear more times than I would like to remember. (reverse had its own lever)

report back on findings.

Paul

I will be back on it tomorrow. I think you are correct in that I have a couple gears locked....I seem to remember reading somewhere, that could happen. c9zx had a good point, but I tried to be very careful when I pulled that retainer and don't remember anything unusual, but I'll be sure to check it. I will unfortunately pull the transmission tomorrow after I try what you suggested. If it doesn't want to turn in neutral with the clutch released, I assume I have to bite the bullet and do it...unless you had some other way of releasing them, when this would happen to you.
I released the clutch and with all levers in neutral, the drive shaft will NOT turn. I am draining the tailshaft and in the next day or two, I will pull the transmission to see what's going on. Any suggestions of anything in particular to look for? hopefully once I pull the top plate, I will be able to see the problem.
 Just a thought. You say all three levers are in neutral, but is that with a 1/4" diam. pin or drill bit past through the locating hole? If not you could have one lever out of whack. I did this myself after I had the box professionally rebuilt. I felt like the proverbial idiot when I took it back to the shop just to find it was me not doing it right.
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#8
(02-09-2017, 07:14 PM)Stanglover Wrote:
(02-09-2017, 06:45 PM)yellowmach351 Wrote:
(02-08-2017, 10:06 PM)yellowmach351 Wrote: I will be back on it tomorrow. I think you are correct in that I have a couple gears locked....I seem to remember reading somewhere, that could happen. c9zx had a good point, but I tried to be very careful when I pulled that retainer and don't remember anything unusual, but I'll be sure to check it. I will unfortunately pull the transmission tomorrow after I try what you suggested. If it doesn't want to turn in neutral with the clutch released, I assume I have to bite the bullet and do it...unless you had some other way of releasing them, when this would happen to you.
I released the clutch and with all levers in neutral, the drive shaft will NOT turn. I am draining the tailshaft and in the next day or two, I will pull the transmission to see what's going on. Any suggestions of anything in particular to look for? hopefully once I pull the top plate, I will be able to see the problem.
 Just a thought. You say all three levers are in neutral, but is that with a 1/4" diam. pin or drill bit past through the locating hole? If not you could have one lever out of whack. I did this myself after I had the box professionally rebuilt. I felt like the proverbial idiot when I took it back to the shop just to find it was me not doing it right.
Thanks for the thought. I had a 1/4" drill bit through the locating holes.

[Image: funny_pictures_pony_mechanic_e1263615472847.png]

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#9
I missed the fact that you have the shifter/ rods/levers still attached to the trans.

I would unbolt the shift levers from the trans and by hand put it in neutral and confirm the problem.

If the trans is STILL locked up I wonder if you lost the needle bearings off of the end of the input shaft
as mentioned before when U removed the bearing retainer. (The input shaft would have to have come forward
about an inch without the bearing retainer attached to loose the bearings.)

Paul
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#10
(02-09-2017, 08:06 PM)rocket366 Wrote: I missed the fact that you have the shifter/ rods/levers still attached to the trans.

I would unbolt the shift levers from the trans and by hand put it in neutral and confirm the problem.

If the trans is STILL locked up I wonder if you lost the needle bearings off of the end of the input shaft
as mentioned before when U removed the bearing retainer.  (The input shaft would have to have come forward
about an inch without the bearing retainer attached to loose the bearings.)

Paul

Linkage is not attached. I had them unbolted and was actuating the 3 shift levers coming out of the transmission by hand. I was just responding to Stanglover, and perhaps I misunderstood his question. Previously when I had all the levers in neutral, before attaching the linkage, I would make sure that all 3 linkage rods were lined up with the 1/4" drill bit through the locating hole.

[Image: funny_pictures_pony_mechanic_e1263615472847.png]

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