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Sanden compressor conversion
#1
The AC in my 72 convertible quit working. I suspect that I have a defective hose where it connects at the fire wall. (I've seen what appears o be refrig. oil in that area)All of the hoses are original to the car as is the compressor which I think still works. I have several questions regarding converting to the Sanden compressor if I am going to replace all the hoses anyway.
So here goes:

1. Has anyone done this conversion and did you like the result?
2. Should I stay with R12 or switch to R134 and why?
3. If I stay with R12 should I go ahead and replace the dryer and possibly the condensor coil to be safe?
4. If I go with R134 what about the evaporator coil under the dash? That's a job I really do not want to undertake. It's a real bear to get to on factory AC.?
5. Is it worth replacing the original hoses
Alot of questions but a complete underhood conversion from Classic Auto Air is about $900.00. I don't mind spending the money if it is worth it. Thaks to everyone in advance.
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#2
I'm restoring my 73 convertible drivetrain including the A/C and am pondering the same issue.
I'veresearched the bracket for the Sanden compressor and it can be obtained for about $40, I've found it at a couple locations. It will mount to the base plate after unbolting the factory York compressor.
The compressor itself is a generic Sanden compressor. Available on ebay and several other locations for about $200.
Add about $250 for replacement hoses and a newer oversize condenser to accommodate the 134 less efficient freon (about 85% of R12) and for about $500-600 I'll have a complete changeover to R134 with the new Sanden compressor (that doesn't have near the drag that the original York does!)
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#3
In my experience with HVAC the york compressor and R12 cannot be beat. This is not to say that sanden is no good, they work great but the low RPM cooling is substandered with 134a. If you break the system open, this would be a good time to flush it, inspect everything, change the orifice tube filter, and vaccume it down real good before recharging. I have converted several older cars from 12 to 134 and they work fine, but to me the 134 does not cool as well as 12.
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#4
Chances are you won't be able to find any R12, unless you know of someone that has some stashed away, as it hasn't been produced for quite a few years. As noted, R134 is not as efficient as R12, so expect some loss of cooling. Depending on where you live might not be an issue, where I live you need every bit of cooling power available.
If you convert, it is a good idea to flush the system as good as possible. Make sure you get R134 that is designed for conversion, so the oil in it is compatible with the oil that was in R12. Coversion kits are readily available, and should include everything you need, including the retrofit fittings. You should have a good vacuum pump available to draw as much air out of the system that you can. Hoses used on R12 should be compatible with R134. Be cautious about retrofit kits, some can contain isobutanes and propanes (called hydrocarbon fluids in their ads), may be called R12a, are obviously very flammable, and are not SAE certified.
R134 will be phased out at sometime in the future, as it also contains ozone depleting HFC, which is not a bad as R12's CFCs. The US replacement will be R1234yf.



“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
--Albert Einstein
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#5
caspianwendell;84019 Wrote:In my experience with HVAC the york compressor and R12 cannot be beat. This is not to say that sanden is no good, they work great but the low RPM cooling is substandered with 134a. If you break the system open, this would be a good time to flush it, inspect everything, change the orifice tube filter, and vaccume it down real good before recharging. I have converted several older cars from 12 to 134 and they work fine, but to me the 134 does not cool as well as 12.

In your experience were the 134a systems using a 134a designed condenser or the factory condenser meant for R 12?

While it is true that 134a is somewhat less efficient than R 12 was, when the system is properly designed and balanced, it will cool every bit as well. My 134a system will freeze you out of the car if run on full blast.

[Image: 1_01_07_15_8_53_18.png]

"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!
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#6
Jeff73Mach1;84044 Wrote:
caspianwendell;84019 Wrote:In my experience with HVAC the york compressor and R12 cannot be beat. This is not to say that sanden is no good, they work great but the low RPM cooling is substandered with 134a. If you break the system open, this would be a good time to flush it, inspect everything, change the orifice tube filter, and vaccume it down real good before recharging. I have converted several older cars from 12 to 134 and they work fine, but to me the 134 does not cool as well as 12.

In your experience were the 134a systems using a 134a designed condenser or the factory condenser meant for R 12?

While it is true that 134a is somewhat less efficient than R 12 was, when the system is properly designed and balanced, it will cool every bit as well. My 134a system will freeze you out of the car if run on full blast.

I change condensor, dryer (rated to XH7), orifice tube, and compressor...flush the evaporator and (barrier)hoses while it is apart. and as stated the sanden and 134 work great, but york compressors with r12 will always be my favorite. Once in my teens I fabricated a york to a 350 chevy and a mustang underdash to my old truck, the unit would throw snow at you when the humidity was right but it would kill the engine at stop lghts...lol...(over charge)...and as I said before r12 cools better at low RPMs than 134a, not in general. I have seen shops that just change the dryer and liquid flush the system and they work great, but I would not recommend that as 134 molicules are smaller than 12. You should make sure you have barrier hoses (hose within a hose) to prevent slow discharge. I use castrol retro oil instead of pag for less moisture absorbtion...Anyway thats my 2 cents...if it's even worth that.
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#7
caspianwendell;84049 Wrote:
Jeff73Mach1;84044 Wrote:
caspianwendell;84019 Wrote:In my experience with HVAC the york compressor and R12 cannot be beat. This is not to say that sanden is no good, they work great but the low RPM cooling is substandered with 134a. If you break the system open, this would be a good time to flush it, inspect everything, change the orifice tube filter, and vaccume it down real good before recharging. I have converted several older cars from 12 to 134 and they work fine, but to me the 134 does not cool as well as 12.

In your experience were the 134a systems using a 134a designed condenser or the factory condenser meant for R 12?

While it is true that 134a is somewhat less efficient than R 12 was, when the system is properly designed and balanced, it will cool every bit as well. My 134a system will freeze you out of the car if run on full blast.

I change condensor, dryer, orifice tube, and compressor...then flush the evaporator and hoses. and as stated the sanden and 134 work great, but york compressors with r12 will always be my favorite. Once in my teens I fabricated a york to a 350 chevy and a mustang underdash to my old truck, the unit would throw snow at you when the humidity was right but it would kill the engine at stop lghts...lol...(over charge)...and as I said before r12 cools better at low RPMs than 134a, not in general

Not being an AC guy like you guys seem to be, what is the oriface tube and where is it located? I'm just a nuts and bolts guy and plan on physically swaping out out the necessary parts and let a real AC guy do the system purge etc. I'm looking for the best method to get my AC working again. I do live in Dallas,Texas so it gets real hot here. (average 106 last week) so whatever I do I want to be sure it will cool when I'm through. If doing a full change over to R134 is required I'm OK with that but if I can get by with new hoses, a system purge and recharge thats OK too. Don't they still sell R12 at just a higher cost?
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#8
terry kelley;84052 Wrote:
caspianwendell;84049 Wrote:
Jeff73Mach1;84044 Wrote:In your experience were the 134a systems using a 134a designed condenser or the factory condenser meant for R 12?

While it is true that 134a is somewhat less efficient than R 12 was, when the system is properly designed and balanced, it will cool every bit as well. My 134a system will freeze you out of the car if run on full blast.

I change condensor, dryer, orifice tube, and compressor...then flush the evaporator and hoses. and as stated the sanden and 134 work great, but york compressors with r12 will always be my favorite. Once in my teens I fabricated a york to a 350 chevy and a mustang underdash to my old truck, the unit would throw snow at you when the humidity was right but it would kill the engine at stop lghts...lol...(over charge)...and as I said before r12 cools better at low RPMs than 134a, not in general

Not being an AC guy like you guys seem to be, what is the oriface tube and where is it located? I'm just a nuts and bolts guy and plan on physically swaping out out the necessary parts and let a real AC guy do the system purge etc. I'm looking for the best method to get my AC working again. I do live in Dallas,Texas so it gets real hot here. (average 106 last week) so whatever I do I want to be sure it will cool when I'm through. If doing a full change over to R134 is required I'm OK with that but if I can get by with new hoses, a system purge and recharge thats OK too. Don't they still sell R12 at just a higher cost?

They do still sell it at a very high price. Here in AR 134a is $14 and r12 runs around $90 for the same OZs. The orifice tube is in the liquid line return to the condenser but the shop where you take it will remove it, flush the system, and replace it with a new one. If your just changing the hoses, I would recommend spending just a little more for barrier hoses and replace all Orings before taking it in...save $$$
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#9
The 71-73 Mustangs don't have an orifice tube. They have an expansion block at the firewall. The hoses screw into the expansion block and the evaporator core screws into it from the passenger compartment side.
Orifice tube didn't show up until the fox body Mustangs if I recall correctly.
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#10
RacerX;84059 Wrote:The 71-73 Mustangs don't have an orifice tube. They have an expansion block at the firewall. The hoses screw into the expansion block and the evaporator core screws into it from the passenger compartment side.
Orifice tube didn't show up until the fox body Mustangs if I recall correctly.

would that need to be replaced with an R134 conversion?
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