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Rust, Desicions, Rust...and Oh Yeah More Rust - Thanks Michigan
#1
OK, so I picked up this '72 Mach 1 about a week ago and got her to her first temporary home today for some basic work and maintenance to make her drivable. Regular Maintenance, brakes, A/C, maybe more...

Upon further inspection today I noticed that this car has so much rust. So I need help deciding what to do here... Initially I figured maybe I should dustless blast the outside and possibly the engine bay. Now I'm thinking maybe this needs a whole lot more than that. What's the point of blasting the outsides of the car when the rust seems to be on the inside of the fenders, insides of the hood Shootself, and basically the entire underside of the vehicle. The carpet needs to be replaced so I already know the seats and everything will need to be removed. The door panels also aren't in the best shape so more than likely they'll be replaced. Now I'm also trying to follow advice here to do as much as possible to keep this original but at some point I have to decide if it's worth it to try and blast and fix these panels or just buy replacements. I have also heard horror stories about blasting causing warped panels and also acid dipping causing issues later on if there is residue left under your new paint. So the more I look into all of these options the more confused I become.

Feedback

Any and all advice will be appreciated!! Thanks!

   
   
   
   
   
   
Rear wheel well
   
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#2
Hi Mike, looks like that car moonlighted as a river cruiser
Looks like you have a bigger job than I have on your hands
Basically any areas of rust that are pitted or you can put a screwdriver through definitely replace, surface rust use a good rust encapsulator, i'm using Miracle Paint and Interguard 269 as an epoxy primer for bare metal
No doubt the floors and cowl panel are rusted, check under the rear seats also
I'm looking into dustless blasting myself and looks good but hopefully someone on the forum has used this method
Just make sure they use a rust inhibitor
Here's a short video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSGoauKmJ6I
Will be interesting to get other opinions on this
Cheers Mick
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#3
If you do it, do it right. No use building a mansion on quicksand. It will show after a short time and it will cost twice.

[Image: 1z21rv4.png]

Mike

"If I were you...... I´d rather be me."  Tongue

Check out my video:
http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-my-mustang-in-action

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#4
Living in an area where rust is prevalent, this is an easy one... either drive it as is with minimal outlay of $$$ or if you are going to invest, the car needs to be taken down completely to address all of the rust you have not yet seen... Good luck.
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#5
Growing up in WI and acquiring my car there it was to be expected. The original DSO on the car was Salt Lake City Utah and my standing joke is that it was parked in the lake a few time. As Pastel stated the only way you will defeat rust is to cut it out and replace. You can do it once or time and time again.

   
   

BKDunha
72 Mach 1 H-Code (Concourse driven restoration)
67 S-Code Factory GT with 4-Spd

68 Mercury Cyclone (Pro-Street project)
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#6
Pastel Blue;288459 Wrote:Living in an area where rust is prevalent, this is an easy one... either drive it as is with minimal outlay of $$$ or if you are going to invest, the car needs to be taken down completely to address all of the rust you have not yet seen... Good luck.

It seems as though it would be best to tear this car down to nothing to have all of the issues addressed. The car is from Michigan but I live in FL so if I take care of the issues I would hope it would last for quite a while. I'm just not sure what the best way is to get rid of all this rust. I live in North Port, FL and I'm not seeing any acid dipping places nearby. I know there are plenty of those dustless blasting places but I've heard they can warp panels. They'd probably work out well for the frame though. Also with rust inside of the hood I've been told acid dipping would be the only way to salvage it. But then I've heard hoods are not a good body part to have dipped because residuals can get caught up in the seams and cause issues down the road. So much to consider...so much more than I thought I'd be getting myself into. Hmmmm..... I'm kind of a perfectionist and unless I was just going to flip this car I would definitely want to take care of ALL rust before going any further.
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#7
I do have one car that was dipped to strip it of rust, paint and sealer. Yes there are horror stories about the chemicals getting trapped in the seams and bleeding out over time. It is not acid it is very harsh chemicals. I bought the car from a failed restoration. It is a 72 Q code vert. It was back in primer when I got the car and also back to a rolling chassis.
I think the company was Chem Strip and I believe it costs about $1,500 to do an entire vehicle. The good thing is that all rust is taken off inside and out. The bad thing is that all the seam sealer, undercoat is also take off. The car was done about 4 years ago and there are no signs of bleeding at the seams at this time. I hope to get started on the car in about a month when garage is complete.
If you do the dip you need to have a way to coat inside the hood reinforcement, trunk reinforcement, doors, etc. Eastwood does make some wands to get inside.
Where a car comes from has little to do with the rust. I have a crashed 72 vert I bought for parts that lived all it's life in Grand Rapids Michigan. When I took the top off there was absolutely no rust around the area where the top connects to the body in the back. Floors and trunk solid along with the cowl. It was a summer only car so did not see the salt and was not hose washed excessively. I also have a 73 California vert, 48,000 miles original paint located in California until a year and half ago and when I pulled the top off of it there was tons of rust around the area that connects the top to the body. This was caused by washing the car with hose a lot so that it stays wet.
I would look seriously at finding another candidate for restore unless this car has some sentimental attachment. A very close in depth inspection needs to be done before buying one of these cars. A little paint hides a lot of rust. Mechanical things are easy to fix but tearing the entire body apart and replacing most of the panels is going to be costly and very time consuming unless you are very experienced.
Any car can be fixed as some of the members have shown. It has to be a labor of love you will not make a profit at it.


When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??
Tongue
David
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#8
Here is one place.
http://www.autorestorationdepot.com/index.html

There is another place over near Tampa that I have heard good things about. I cannot seem to locate them right now. You want to go with an Alkaline dip if anything. It is the least destructive to the good metal. I would recommend going and looking at the process anywhere you would consider first. People's opinions run the gamut on hot tanking a car. Just confirm the car gets a complete immersion bath following the etching.

I know of another place in LA that also e-coats the body after dipping. I just have their number 318-628-3288.

BKDunha
72 Mach 1 H-Code (Concourse driven restoration)
67 S-Code Factory GT with 4-Spd

68 Mercury Cyclone (Pro-Street project)
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#9
The DSO code on mine was for Lansing, MI, so I have a pretty good idea where the rusting process began for mine.

Mine was significantly worse than your pictures show, requiring the replacement of the following:
  • entire front clip, including torque boxes and frame rail extensions
  • battery tray on new front clip
  • fenders
  • front valance
  • upper and lower cowl panels
  • floor pans
  • intermediate panels (under rear seat)
  • trunk pan
  • forward gas tank strap hanger
  • rear cross member
  • trunk drop-offs
  • quarter panels
  • taillight panel
  • trunk lid
  • rear valance

The hood required minimal repair, along with the doors and driver side rocker panel.

I did mine section by section, and looking back I would recommend having the car dipped or media blasted (on a rotisserie, if possible), then get anything and everything covered in epoxy primer (Rust Bullet is a great product for this). There were actually no places in my area that offered any of those services, hence my 'one bite at a time' approach. Cut out the bad stuff, put in the new stuff, get it shiny again, then put it all back together. Easy-peasy. Wink Big Grin

I think you'll be surprised at just how easy most of what's in your pictures actually cleans up.

Good luck and keep us posted - we love seeing 'em come back together! thumb

Eric

[Image: mach1sig2.gif]
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#10
ITMike5.0;288463 Wrote:
Pastel Blue;288459 Wrote:Living in an area where rust is prevalent, this is an easy one... either drive it as is with minimal outlay of $$$ or if you are going to invest, the car needs to be taken down completely to address all of the rust you have not yet seen... Good luck.

It seems as though it would be best to tear this car down to nothing to have all of the issues addressed. The car is from Michigan but I live in FL so if I take care of the issues I would hope it would last for quite a while. I'm just not sure what the best way is to get rid of all this rust. I live in North Port, FL and I'm not seeing any acid dipping places nearby. I know there are plenty of those dustless blasting places but I've heard they can warp panels. They'd probably work out well for the frame though. Also with rust inside of the hood I've been told acid dipping would be the only way to salvage it. But then I've heard hoods are not a good body part to have dipped because residuals can get caught up in the seams and cause issues down the road. So much to consider...so much more than I thought I'd be getting myself into. Hmmmm..... I'm kind of a perfectionist and unless I was just going to flip this car I would definitely want to take care of ALL rust before going any further.

Yes, hoods and trunk lids; one has to be careful with... I went through the same considerations with my current restoration. If the rust is excessive inside these panels, you have a dilemma... the outer and inner panels incorporate a sealer material at various contact points that you simply cannot get at. If you lose this material through chemical dipping, the panels are shot IMO. On my restoration, any type of dipping that would dissolve this required panel to panel sealing material was a no go... if these pieces are badly rusted in areas you cannot get at to physically repair, you my have to look at replacement rust free replacements.

I had a lot of parts chemically dipped, very happy with the results. The underbody areas and certain upper areas (ie. trunk, interior, engine bay, etc.) were sandblasted, excluding exterior panels susceptible to warping. Eastwood sells products that will encapsulate rust, to a point; as long as you can reach it inside the hood for spraying purposes.
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