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Reverse Fluid Injection -Bleeding Brakes
#1
Wrench 
All,
I am preparing to replace Brake Master Cylinder with ABS on 2007 F-150 Truck. So, I decide to research the subject to see what was the best practice that I could I apply to truck and the 1973 mustang.

I processed a search of the Suspension, Handling, and Brakes threads and found the sound typical processes in Master Cylinder, brake line, and caliper brake fluid bleeding.

I wanted to find something that would provide a powered vacuum DYI type system to aid in the bleeding of the brake system.

So, I was looking around the internet and found the Phoenix Systems RFI brake bleeding system. Huh, maybe I was doing the process wrong to start with.

Reverse Bleeding

Reverse Bleeding injects fluid at the low points, the slave bleeder valves. Reverse Bleeding takes advantage of the “laws of Physics” air rises in fluid. The complete system is bled by forcing the air up and out the master cylinder reservoir. The brake fluid then fills the reservoir.

This tells me that when I would be trying to force the air downward with the fluid out of the calipers and wheel cylinders, I would not get all of the air bubbles out due to the air fighting to move upwards. Duh moment here!


1: Reverse feed the brake fluid back towards the Master cylinder

2: Afterwards, reverse the process and vacuum the fluid back through. (Standard Practice that we have all followed).

Here is the You Tube on the PHOENIX SYSTEMS V12-DIY BREAK BLEEDER Kit- This kit has been discontinued. If you do a Google search, one can find this kit on EBay, Summit Racing, and Jeggs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LVyA_3lOmM

Another You Tube video that I found interesting was the process in which wheel to start bleeding the system from. Typically, we start from the furthest point which would the right rear wheel.

This persons process started with the LF first. Wait a minute. I have always been told to start with the furthest point first.

His reasoning was sound. Why would I want to run the old contaminated fluid and trash thorough out the brake system? Makes sense! So, I f I start the Left Front (LF) port, closet to the Master Cylinder, I will drain all of the contaminated brake fluid out. So, when bled the rest of the brake system, I will bleed it with fresh brake fluid.

He stated that this works best for him. But, it is some good sound thinking.

Start with the LF, then to the RR, next to RF, and final bleed to the LR.
I know that the Suspension, Handling, and Brakes section has look of good information. As I stated at the beginning, I searched the on Brake threads and I did not see any threads related to Reverse Fluid Injection (RFI) of the brake fluid bleeding process.


Another source who tested this practice.

Brake Bleeding Guide - Better Prep For Better Brakes
http://www.circletrack.com/chassistech/c...ing_guide/



Please respond to let other forum members know what you think about this process.

Mustang7173 Big Grin
  Reply
#2
Good info - thanks for the thread.

I like the idea because I never felt I got all the air out.
This method makes sence to me.

Ray

1971 Boss 351  
1972 Q code 4 speed convertible 
1971 Mustang Sportsroof  351-2V FMX 
1973 Mach 1 (parts car)
  Reply
#3
Wow, so logical and simple. It all seems so simple. Brakes are by far one of my most dreaded tasks. Messy Nasty and always a pain in the ass. I installed a used set of SSBC brakes on my truck a few years ago. Had nothing but issues at first. Bleeders leaking, missing parts, and seals leaking under pressure. None of it was SSBC fault they were great in customer service and helping me get the kit right. Previous owner of the kit was a moron and screwed things up. Nothing like removing and installing brakes three or 4 times to really make a person visceral. Maybe if I had this tool it would have been a bit easier.

Speedway Motors has them listed on Ebay for $58
  Reply
#4
I have the Phoenix V-12 Brake Bleeder Kit. http://www.autoanything.com/brakes/74A5485A0A0.aspx I was looking for a pressure bleeder like I used in the 70s and 80s when I saw the Stacey David clip and decided to give it a try.

It's supposed to be their best kit. I have bled a lot of brakes, but for the life of me I cannot get it to work like they show. I tried every method they showed to bleed the brakes on my '69 and couldn't get it to work. I tried to get support through their website and email - no response at all. I finally ended up reverting to the old manual method.

If anyone wants to take one for a test drive or buy one at a discount PM me.

Bob

Tachs, Voltmeters, Headlight kits, Wiper delays and more at
[Image: smlogo.jpg]
Rocketman's Classic Cougar (and Mustang) Innovations, LLC
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#5
I can see a whole lot of brake fluid filling up the reservoir and overfilling; worse yet is if the cap is off and fluid goes everywhere.

Can you imagine trying to drain the master reservoir?
  Reply
#6
If you take some small diameter clear tubing (about brake line diameter) and fill it with brake fluid I believe that you'll find the air bubbles move up very slowly, if at all. It doesn't take much pressure to make them move down the tube.



“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
--Albert Einstein
  Reply
#7
Don C;156881 Wrote:If you take some small diameter clear tubing (about brake line diameter) and fill it with brake fluid I believe that you'll find the air bubbles move up very slowly, if at all. It doesn't take much pressure to make them move down the tube.

+1
  Reply
#8
Hello Midlife,

You have a good point there. I figured one could get a plastic Turkey Baster to remove the excess break fluid.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-ounce-TURKEY-B...4897.l4276

mustang7173 Big Grin

midlife;156878 Wrote:I can see a whole lot of brake fluid filling up the reservoir and overfilling; worse yet is if the cap is off and fluid goes everywhere.

Can you imagine trying to drain the master reservoir?
  Reply
#9
All,

I contacted TheRktmn and he is loaning the me the Phoenix V-12 Brake Bleeder Kit to try it out. I will let the forum know how it well it or not it works. Thank You TheRktman.

mustang7173
  Reply
#10
Anyone who has changed the gear oil in an OMC outdrive understands this concept!

You have to push oil up from the drain plug in oder to avoid air pockets.
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