• 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Reproduction vs. OEM Sheet Metal
#1
Hello To All,

I am creating this thread due to the poor fit of the reproduction rear sheet metal quarter and outer wheel housing for our year mustangs. I am doing a remake due to the rust between the old and new lower rear quarters. This is my 1973 Mustang Coupe that has been in reconstruction for a while. I did the first restore. I decide to leave the second to my friend who I consider one of the best paint and body around. He has been in the business for at least 30 years. Anyway, the rear quarters and wheel housing did not fit worth a darn. The rear wheel housing had to cut in certain places with sheet metal added to them to make them fit properly. In the picture provided, he had to cut the spot welds and custom fit the rear quarters to the wheel wells. He did fine job, but he stated that if I would have had OEM parts, it would have cut the process by more than half. Well, I could not afford the original stuff I said. He understands. If one thing I could do to help the hobby, would be to insist that if you are going to make reproduction parts, make them at least fit without major modification to the part.

Thank You

mustang7173[attachment=10674][attachment=10675][attachment=10676][attachment=10677][attachment=10678][attachment=10679][attachment=10680]
  Reply
#2
Thats the way it is with repro parts..Some times you get lucky They fit real nice..Other times it's all custom..You do what you have to do..Any body guy who knows how to do metal work properly can make any repro body panel work...Be happy you can at least get a repro to work with..Think of the alternative if none were available..I shouldn't comment but I'm going to.. don't take offense...My comment is to enlighten & help get a better job..Your buddy needs to turn down the heat & space out his weld when he does a section like that...He shrunk & warped the heck out of the seam...Your gonna need a lot of filler in the seam not to mention a huge skim coat over the whole panel..The seam needed to be hammer welded as he was welding..then
hammer & dolly..then shrinking disc.. Just a few tips for a better job.

LOVE OF BEAUTY IS TASTE..THE CREATION OF BEAUTY IS ART
  Reply
#3
Qcode351mach;86539 Wrote:Thats the way it is with repro parts..Some times you get lucky They fit real nice..Other times it's all custom..You do what you have to do..Any body guy who knows how to do metal work properly can make any repro body panel work...Be happy you can at least get a repro to work with..Think of the alternative if none were available..I shouldn't comment but I'm going to.. don't take offense...My comment is to enlighten & help get a better job..Your buddy needs to turn down the heat & space out his weld when he does a section like that...He shrunk & warped the heck out of the seam...Your gonna need a lot of filler in the seam not to mention a huge skim coat over the whole panel..The seam needed to be hammer welded as he was welding..then
hammer & dolly..then shrinking disc.. Just a few tips for a better job.

Do you offer classes? I am sure people would be willing to pay for your wisdom Q!
  Reply
#4
mweeps;86565 Wrote:
Qcode351mach;86539 Wrote:Thats the way it is with repro parts..Some times you get lucky They fit real nice..Other times it's all custom..You do what you have to do..Any body guy who knows how to do metal work properly can make any repro body panel work...Be happy you can at least get a repro to work with..Think of the alternative if none were available..I shouldn't comment but I'm going to.. don't take offense...My comment is to enlighten & help get a better job..Your buddy needs to turn down the heat & space out his weld when he does a section like that...He shrunk & warped the heck out of the seam...Your gonna need a lot of filler in the seam not to mention a huge skim coat over the whole panel..The seam needed to be hammer welded as he was welding..then
hammer & dolly..then shrinking disc.. Just a few tips for a better job.

Do you offer classes? I am sure people would be willing to pay for your wisdom Q!
Not Yet..But I'm tossing around a how to video for sale..or a site you could join that would give you access to the videos..do web seminars Been talking with my neighbor (unreal web marketing guy http://www.thinkaroundcorners.com/) on how to approach it..

LOVE OF BEAUTY IS TASTE..THE CREATION OF BEAUTY IS ART
  Reply
#5
Hello,

No offense taken. Thank You for all inputs.

mustang7173
  Reply
#6
Wrench 
Hello To All,

Just wanted to provide an update to the past thread here about the rear quarter panels and wheel housings that were giving us problems. The Body man has worked his magic!

[Image: 13zd7hk.jpg]
[Image: 28up8bc.jpg]
[Image: bhbtco.jpg]
[Image: cm0m1.jpg]
[Image: 2nba60x.jpg]

Good to see some progress here.

mustang7173Big Grin
  Reply
#7
Like any skill or ability, knowledge is useless without hours of practice. It has been said that the average person cannot expect themselves to be skillful at ANYTHING until after they have put a minimum of 10,000 hours into practicing that particular skill.
Personally, I am a firm believer in that philosophy. I have always believed that as long as I am ( or was) mentally and physically ABLE to do anything, that there is absolutely NO REASON that I could not become an expert at that skill.
I sincerely believe this to be true of every single person in America: the average "normal" people, the less-fortunate handicapped, the unemployed homeless...every single person has every opportunity to excel within thier abilities.
Those that don't have only to look inward to discover why they can't achieve what they want to life.

Skilled bodywork is a perfect example to me of that philosophy: a skilled bodyman can make crap aftermarket panels look perfect every time. A body and sheetmetal "artisan" can recreate perfectly a one-of-kind complicated body panel out of a flat sheet of stock sheet steel.

Dedication and a desire to strive for excellence is within the reach of every person.

Also, with regards to "why can't they make better aftermarket sheetmetal", it is not really that simple of a problem to overcome, for a variety of reasons:
First, ours cars are old, and designed and constructed of a relatively flimsy "unibody" design. This means that even if driven gently for 100,000 miles...things are just going to flex and stretch and generally fall out of exact alignment. Maybe not so noticeable to the average person looking at the car as a whole, but very noticeable when trying to fit new sheetmetal.
Even if using "perfect", unblemished factory OEM sheetmetal...it will most times not fit perfectly.
Additionally, there is the financial aspect of the sheetmetal manufacturer to consider.
The material the stamping dies are constructed from determine how precisely the part is manufactured, as well as how many thousands of parts can be stamped before the dies become to innaccurate to produce an "acceptable" product. The quality of the sheetmetal itself also has a huge impact on how accurate the finished product is, as well as the amount of wear imparted to the stamping dies and machinery.
All of this must be figured into the cost to manufacture the part vs how many can be sold and at what price they can be sold for. As in everything...the market itself generally determines the minimum acceptable quality of nearly all goods sold.

Look at any vehicle that is a first-year edition for that bodystyle, and compare it to an example of the same vehicle produced during the last year of that style's production. You will notice vast differences in the "accuracy" of the body lines and creases in the sheetmetal on the later vehicles, due to worn stamping dies.
Many times these worn, damaged or broken dies are sold to outside vendors who then repair them as cheap as possible and produce aftermarket sheetmetal.

Handtools are a great example of this: wrenches and handtools must be, by neccesity very accurately manufactured so that they are durable and fit well. Expensive tools ( Snap-On, Matco, etc...) are expensive for a reason: it costs a lot to engineer and make consistently excellent quality products.
When the tool-making dies are no longer "accurate" enough to make a quality tool, some tool makers remove thier name from the dies, and then sell the worn-out dies to cheap overseas manufacturers who then use these cheaply-refurbished dies to make hundreds of thousands of lesser-quality tools.
Like most things...you generally get what you pay for. There is a VAST difference in tool quality.

Our Mustangs probably would not provide a market strong enough to warrant the investment in higher-quality sheetmetal. Too bad for us...
  Reply
#8
Hello Kit Sullivan,

I totally agree with you. The gentleman who is working the body work has been at for approximately 30 years. He also learned how to work sheet metal from a gentleman work built aircraft carriers in WW II. As my father told me several times, we all have the opportunity to achieve what we want, we just have to focus and really work hard for it.

As for the sheet metal, yes, you are spot on. No part will be a perfect fit unless it is an NOS part that was original Ford. I have often wondered what the process was involved in bringing one these quarter panels to production. Especially since the original dies are no longer available. It is hard to believe that our mustangs are over 40 years old!

Mustang7173
  Reply
#9
Even NOS sheetmetal won't fit perfectly most times. The nature of our cars being "imprecise puzzles" when manufactured is only exacerbated with age and wear. There was a lot of "wrangling" the parts to get them to fit together on cars on the assembly lines back then just to get an "acceptable" finished product.
The examples of new vehicles displayed at new-car introductions use basically hand-made vehicles that are carefully and precisely "built" ( as opposed to "manufactured") mostly by hand every step of the way.
These vehicles are the nadir of what the manufacturers want us to think is or will be an example of what they will eventually make and sell to consumers, but they are the same in name and image only...not even close to reality.
Flawless hand-rubbed multi-layer paint, show-quality chrome, precise panel-gaps from carefully hand-fitted body panels, every fastener hand-tightened to tolerance, accurately placed and produced spot-welds, carefully-stitched upbolstery from high quailty materials, etc...
To sell our cars back in the early 70's if they were actually built the way the show-cars were, they would have probably cost 4 to 5 times as much.

On an old car like ours, we gotta' face it: we have to continually "finesse" them to meet our own high standards.
  Reply
Share Thread:  


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Window Trim Cleaning, Bright metal andy72 4 561 04-22-2018, 10:32 AM
Last Post: Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs
  Reproduction bright trim discoloration c9zx 4 651 08-14-2017, 10:22 AM
Last Post: c9zx
  Metal Tabs along Roof Rail Weatherstrip andy72 6 976 06-03-2017, 06:38 AM
Last Post: OMS
  Interior Reproduction Parts mpproducts 37 5,903 03-02-2017, 01:38 AM
Last Post: gpierce
  U-POL direct to metal 2k High build primer. Anyone use it? NEW PICS! Opinions? turtle5353 10 2,907 10-13-2016, 06:53 AM
Last Post: turtle5353
  Front fender & hood pot metal trim pieces Ray 8 1,533 09-28-2015, 06:36 PM
Last Post: Bru
  Best reproduction upholstery manufacturer Gardoco 7 1,582 04-22-2014, 11:37 AM
Last Post: turrrbo6
  Metal Flake Paint, helppppppp Slimbo 8 2,170 11-21-2012, 04:11 AM
Last Post: Slimbo



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)