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Oil
#1
I am hearing a lot about that the oil use today doesn't have zinc in it and that will cause wear in older engines . I have read about some zinc additive to add to oil.and was wondering if this is something that I should add. I have been using ford motorcraft 10 w 30 synthetic in my 351 Cleveland.

John
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#2
John J;129089 Wrote:I am hearing a lot about that the oil use today doesn't have zinc in it and that will cause wear in older engines . I have read about some zinc additive to add to oil.and was wondering if this is something that I should add. I have been using ford motorcraft 10 w 30 synthetic in my 351 Cleveland.

John

Well..Yes about the zinc and nickle being missing from the modern oils...But that is only needed during break in of old flat tap style cams on a fresh rebuild..Oil you are runing is fine.."Like i said" Long as it is not a fresh rebuild...On fresh rebuild you need a break in oil that has zinc and nickle.
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#3
I use Valvoline VR1 Racing oil (dino).
Has a high zinc and phosphorus content
which is good for our engines. Needs to be
changed on a regular basis $$. So a K&N filter
plus 5 quarts will set you back 60 bucks, but
what is your Cleveland worth?

mike

[Image: 1_11_11_13_11_50_27.png]
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#4
on oil everyone has an opinion.

I use Royal Purple, Engine Break in Oil.10W-30 It was designed for Flat tappet engines.
it has high levels of Zinc protection.

years ago i used to put the Zinc Additive in engine oil. It became a hassle, once i learned purple made the oil and wasn't changing the formula later like others did like rotella i stuck with it.

royal purple tells you to use the oil for the first 3000 miles and then switch to normal synthetic but i wanted to keep the flat tappet protection. If you have rebuilt a cleveland with roller rockers then it doesn't matter. I've been using the engine break in oil for about 10 years now and have no issues.

as for oil filters as long as it has a one way valve to prevent drain back to stop dry startups your fine, but i use K&N gold Filters HP-3001


there will always be debate about switching from dino to synthetic and it causing engine failure or leaks.

to a certain extent this is true. non-synthetics have Waxes in the liquid these waxes tend to clog up small leaks. Synthetics are designed to clean the oil system out and remove wax. so an older engine with more leaks that wax has plugged up will suddenly start leaking. it is possible for a larger piece of wax to come loose and lodge in an oil gallery causing a oil starvation situation. if the wax clogs up a main bearing oil gallery, the engine could grenade itself. so that is where people got the idea that switching from dino to synthetic blew up motors. a lot of that was caused by bad maintenance in the past using Dino. where you had massive varnish and wax build up from non-regular oil changes. but the engine in that case would be all messed up before you switched to synthetic, in that case it might be the nail in the coffin. a decently clean engine and working PCV would leak and run the same on either without issue
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#5
With the factory spec'd tolerances i believe dino is better for Clevelands. Brand new alum engines with their aerospace cylndr coatings and atomic level tolerances need the synthetic IMO. I read comments by Roush years ago....or maybe it was Don Nicholson in regards to the factory cranks. Seems they found that the nodular iron cranks held oil on the bearing surface better than the forged cranks. And they didnt have synhetic back then. Not sure how they measured it. Also since i use hydraulic roller lifters i use conventional because the synthetic can be so slippery the rollers just slide over the lobes rather than roll and can flat spot. But i guess that depends on your spring pressures.
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#6
The cheap store brand oil at Dollar General and the Accel brand that I have found at Wal Mart I have discovered are both inexpensive and irated SF. Meaning it has zinc in it. It says on the bottles that it is NOT recommended for cars built after 1989. That in itself is always a good sign. I have never owned a car that new.
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#7
72HCODE;129110 Wrote:on oil everyone has an opinion.

I use Royal Purple, Engine Break in Oil.10W-30 It was designed for Flat tappet engines.
it has high levels of Zinc protection.

years ago i used to put the Zinc Additive in engine oil. It became a hassle, once i learned purple made the oil and wasn't changing the formula later like others did like rotella i stuck with it.

royal purple tells you to use the oil for the first 3000 miles and then switch to normal synthetic but i wanted to keep the flat tappet protection. If you have rebuilt a cleveland with roller rockers then it doesn't matter. I've been using the engine break in oil for about 10 years now and have no issues.

as for oil filters as long as it has a one way valve to prevent drain back to stop dry startups your fine, but i use K&N gold Filters HP-3001


there will always be debate about switching from dino to synthetic and it causing engine failure or leaks.

to a certain extent this is true. non-synthetics have Waxes in the liquid these waxes tend to clog up small leaks. Synthetics are designed to clean the oil system out and remove wax. so an older engine with more leaks that wax has plugged up will suddenly start leaking. it is possible for a larger piece of wax to come loose and lodge in an oil gallery causing a oil starvation situation. if the wax clogs up a main bearing oil gallery, the engine could grenade itself. so that is where people got the idea that switching from dino to synthetic blew up motors. a lot of that was caused by bad maintenance in the past using Dino. where you had massive varnish and wax build up from non-regular oil changes. but the engine in that case would be all messed up before you switched to synthetic, in that case it might be the nail in the coffin. a decently clean engine and working PCV would leak and run the same on either without issue

I believe you meant roller lifters.

Solid lifter cams must have zinc
Hydraulic lifter cams don't need it

Unless you have a Boss 351, a 1972 HO engine, or an aftermarket cam, high zinc oils are not necessary.

[Image: 1_01_07_15_8_53_18.png]

"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!
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#8
goodnigh;129109 Wrote:I use Valvoline VR1 Racing oil (dino).
Has a high zinc and phosphorus content
which is good for our engines. Needs to be
changed on a regular basis $$. So a K&N filter
plus 5 quarts will set you back 60 bucks, but
what is your Cleveland worth?

mike

Like Mike I'm using Valvoline VR1 Racing oil for the ZDDP, if I need it or not, who knows, but it's there just in case. It also has enhanced anti-foam abilities which doesn't hurt. Since the car is only driven on warm clear days I'm running 20W-50. During winter storage I replace it with a thinner oil for those random start ups. So the oil gets changed twice a year whether it needs it or not.

Jim

Jim

M code 71 Mach 1, 351 4V Cleveland, Ram Air (not factory), C6 Trans, 3.5 rear
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#9
I have switched to the Valvoline VRI racing oil from running mobil 1 synthetic in my car after 2 different camshafts took one lobe off each one in a 3 year time frame, both times while the car was warming up after inital startup. This last camshaft I have installed in my car I talked to a bunch of dirt racers and they said to try the VR1 racing oil, it has some zinc but also put a Zinc additive also in the oil , (like some break in lube, it is concentrated with zinc that engines with solid lifters AND also hydraulic lifters need) Since then in every car i have, including my dirt track race car that has solid lifters runs around 7,000 rpm going into every turn for at least 40 laps every saturday night, i haven't had any more trouble with camshafts, bearings, or anything else engine wear related. I believe the little bit extra investment in good lubrication is well worth it in the long run vs replacing worn out parts from friction or improper lubrication. If you have roller lifters then don't worry about it as they don't need the zinc.
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#10
Dont forget about nickle too...It is still used to coat the bearrings..And use to be in alot of oils back in the day....If you wanna get real serious about your oil..Just send a sample off to blackstone... http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/engine-oil-analysis/ Shows you what every metal does...Way more than just zinc to think about...Bunch of snake oils !! Wink
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