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Newbie with questions about 351w or 351c
#1
Hi all. New member here. Turned 40 years old last week and bought my first ever muscle/classic car project.  I’ve been wanting to do this since I was a teenager but never had the means. 
This week I bought a 1971 Mustang Mach 1. Previous owner did a lot of the body work and gave up on the project.  Windshield, fuel tank, panels, trunk etc all replaced.  Car runs and drives but needs restoration. Mostly the interior is trashed. But here’s my plans and my questions 

I’d like to get he car as close to original stock as possible (except I’d like to cha he the interior from red to black). I think initially I want to just get everything cleaned up, engine bay painted and motor painted pretty, underside painted, interior redone etc. I don’t expect it to be a $100k show car. But I do want it done to the best of my ability and somewhat limited finances. 

So here’s my main question. Whenever I get to the engine work. I do want to beef it up a little. Add a little HP. However, my car was an original 351 2v per Marti report. But it doesn’t specify if it was Cleveland or Windsor. 

Well.... my car has a 351w in it and the previous owner swears it’s the original motor. But I’m finding conflicting results when I search. Some say these 71-73 stands never had a Windsor at all. And others say there were rare instances when a Windsor was used. Specifically early production 71 models (mine was produced 11/1970). So my production date would support that theory if it’s fact. 

So before I dig into the Windsor and build it up and paint it. I want to know for a fact if it’s original. If it’s not, I’d rather replace with a Cleveland. 

Anyone have any ideas??


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#2
Hello from Texas!

Looks like you've got your work cut out.  I myself have not had my first hot rod until I was 55 (Last Year!).  I bought a 72 Mach 1 that was mostly restored in body and mechanics but the brakes, steering, interior and electrical were all shot.  Spent many months getting what i could done.  Anyway the pic of the label from the valve cover that you posted indicates that it is a Windsor engine.  Here is a link for IDing the difference.

https://www.vintage-mustang.com/topics/f...eland.html

Hi all. New member here. Turned 40 years old last week and bought my first ever muscle/classic car project.  I’ve been wanting to do this since I was a teenager but never had the means. 
This week I bought a 1971 Mustang Mach 1. Previous owner did a lot of the body work and gave up on the project.  Windshield, fuel tank, panels, trunk etc all replaced.  Car runs and drives but needs restoration. Mostly the interior is trashed. But here’s my plans and my questions 

I’d like to get he car as close to original stock as possible (except I’d like to cha he the interior from red to black). I think initially I want to just get everything cleaned up, engine bay painted and motor painted pretty, underside painted, interior redone etc. I don’t expect it to be a $100k show car. But I do want it done to the best of my ability and somewhat limited finances. 

So here’s my main question. Whenever I get to the engine work. I do want to beef it up a little. Add a little HP. However, my car was an original 351 2v per Marti report. But it doesn’t specify if it was Cleveland or Windsor. 

Well.... my car has a 351w in it and the previous owner swears it’s the original motor. But I’m finding conflicting results when I search. Some say these 71-73 stands never had a Windsor at all. And others say there were rare instances when a Windsor was used. Specifically early production 71 models (mine was produced 11/1970). So my production date would support that theory if it’s fact. 

So before I dig into the Windsor and build it up and paint it. I want to know for a fact if it’s original. If it’s not, I’d rather replace with a Cleveland. 

Anyone have any ideas??

1972 Mach 1 351 Cleveland Ram Air, C6, 9 inch with 3.25 Posi.
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#3
Hi. Thank you.

I know it’s a Windsor. But my question is how can I confirm if it’s the original engine or if it originally had a Cleveland?
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#4
I would say it's an engine from a newer model. Catalytic converters didn't start being used until 1975, and the first breakerless ignitions in Ford's was in 1974 or 1975.

Is there a metal tag attached to the top of the engine anyplace? If so, it should have more information.

Otherwise you'll have to try and find the casting number and date code for the engine. The casting number and date code for the intake manifold should be easier. There should also be a partial VIN located on the back of the block, right below the head gasket, on the driver's side that will let you know what the engine came out of.



“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
--Albert Einstein
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#5
The engine has partial VIN# stamped on the block just below the surface the head mounts on the drivers side. The Mexican Mustangs all had Windsor. No Windsor were approved for use in U.S.. It is possible for a prototype to get out. The date codes on the casting is another obvious area to look.  
Never say never with Ford. You never know.


When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??
Tongue
David
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#6
It's really simple - since it's a 351W, it isn't the original engine, unless it's a Mexican Mustang.


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#7
Thanks guys. This is kinda what I figured. Just didn’t know for certain. I’ll try and find a code tomorrow.

That said. I did find a complete 351 Cleveland from a guy locally who said he will give to me for $100 just to haul it off. He said he doesn’t know a whole lot about it. But believes the block is fine with no cracks. Even thinks the 2v heads are good but said the rest probably needs a full rebuild. So for the price, I’m going to pick it up tomorrow.

I’ve never built an engine from the ground up before. Other than disassembling it. What should be the first thing I do? Is it going to need to go to a machine shop? What should I expect to pay for that? And what should I be looking to get them to do?
[Image: 00848-ECC-3345-475-F-A9-B1-B2-A8182-B081-A.jpg]
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#8
I would say, from just looking at it there has likely been water in the cylinders, and if it's a standard bore you shouldn't have any problem getting it bored.

Pull the intake and heads, see what condition the cylinders are in. Check the tops of the pistons or use dial or digital calipers to measure the diameter of the cylinders. Also check for a ridge at the top of the cylinders, these will give you an idea of the condition and what needs to be done. Most likely you'll need to take it to a machinist. If you want, go ahead and pull it apart yourself, check crankshaft journals and cam condition. Good time to upgrade the camshaft and have cam bearings installed. Also take the heads to the machinist and have them checked for cracks and have the valve guides checked and have hardened valve seats installed. Depending on what your plans are for it, you may want to have studs installed for adjustable rocker arms. If it's a '72 or '73 it'll likely have dished pistons, I would replace with flat top pistons.

If it needs the crankshaft ground or replaced you might want to consider a stroker kit, good way to add plenty of power.

Get the shop manual for it, they're available in PDF format on CDs or download.



“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
--Albert Einstein
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#9
runninpony 
Welcome from Omaha!

71-73 Mustangs never die, they just go faster!
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#10
As I understand it ....Cleve has 4x bolt crank - longer block, bigger heads, (makes good strokers) - typical Windsors unless "Roush for Pantera" were 2x bolt crank.  In a 7173 I couldnt care less if it were a 302 .. I love all the 71-73 cars too much.

Gladly, unless someone in here tells me different.. .there was no straight 6 260ci. ....which would make me barf - vomit uncontrollably and have me on the shrinks couch for weeks. Welcome from UK btw.

[Image: 260ci.jpg]

[Image: siggy.jpg]

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