• 1 Vote(s) - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
MUST SEE READ ABOUT SAFE STRUCTURAL REPAIRS
#11
Hello Q,

Holy cow Batman! There are a lot of people out there who think that the older automobiles are really safe vehicles. One of my good friends is an auto body professional with 35 years of service. Often I will go with him to his shop and get to see the auto’s that are in repair. You get to see the internal area of damage and repair. We have had many discussions on auto manufacturing and how they are built to absorb the energy of a Collision and drop the engine with frontal collisions. Unfortunately, our mustangs are nowhere near that level of safety. My opinion of how safe our mustangs in terms of collisions has really changed in the past 5 years. He is one who is replacing the sheet metal in my 1973 coupe. The first time I did the repairs, it was OK. Now, after watching him redo what I did, plus the extra work, I am nowhere even close to being qualified to perform that type of work. I am fortunate to know someone of his experience to perform that work and trust his expertise.

Q, thank you for sharing the information. The information in this forum is here to help us all decide on the best way to rebuild and or restore our 1971 1973 Ford Mustangs.

Thanks,

Mustang7173
  Reply
#12
Came back to see how this was going and some do get a little touchy and that is good. Passion makes the world a better place. Having been an automotive tooling engineer I have been involved from concept to SOP Start Of Production. I have worked with the Americans, Germans and Japanese. I mainly worked on Ford products for American, the two big German companies and a couple of the big Japanese companies. Of those companies I always felt that Ford did a better job on engineering. I personally was involved in the unibody structure of one of the German cars that I will not name specific. When the first off tool samples are available they do a build and those cars head to durability and crash testing. They failed in all areas. In frontal crashes the engine came up and into the cabin instead of down and under the floor. The seat belts tore out of the anchor points. During durability pulling a trailer of the 6,500 lbs. that would be advertised, the body stretched so much that the battery fell out of the rear. All of this took place after early prototype and computer simulations had said all was good. So you throw tooling away and they start adding Band-Aids to get the vehicle to pass all the required crashes.
I also saw the Japanese scramble to add patches in places to make the car barely pass the required testing.
We were headed to lunch with some of the Japanese engineers and were riding in a Ford vehicle. Someone on the Japanese team make a comment he liked the vehicle and the owner trying to be polite said that the comparable Japanese vehicle was nice and the Japanese engineer jumped in immediately and said " No this vehicle much stronger and more power". That sort of set us all back that he would make that comment about the company he worked for.
I have seen the engineers move spot welds and try to take just one more out to save the $.03 that the weld cost them. Yes $.03 three cents is all they would pay for a spot weld you put into a sub assembly.
Everyone will always have their opinions but please never take short cuts or leave out anything that needs to be fixed. When you are welding up sub assemblies in a plant you are required to do weld tear downs and check the weld nugget size for spot welds. MIG weld, very few now, also have to be torn apart. Weld nuts and studs at least have to pass a minimum push out test on a regular basis. This data has to be stored in case there is some kind of failure in the field later.
Yes the attorneys will surely jump on the band wagon if there is something to sue about. Oh by the way my gal friend is an attorney. As far as the DIY guys it would be difficult to argue that no floor pan in a rusty Mustang would be better than one put in with questionably welds. Something is better than nothing.
The 71 - 73 Mustang were some of the early vehicles with better seat belts and at lease some bumper design to improve crash. The only reason they did it was the government made them pass minimum standards.
Just do a better job than you have to and all will be ok.
Todays vehicles will be almost impossible to fix correctly with the exotic materials and processes. The insurance companies are scratching their heads on how to handle the new aluminum F-150. It will probably mean higher rates due to the cost to repair after a crash. More will get totaled for sure.
Beautiful day in the mountains,
David
  Reply
#13
A friend of mine owns a body shop. He recently showed me $200K worth of equipment he has bought in the last year to deal with the repair of new vehicles. That doesn't include the cost of getting himself and his employees ICAR certified. He is in negotiations with the insurance companies to raise the hourly cosmetic repair rate by $20 per hour and $40 per hours for structural repairs. He doesn't do anything but insurance work because that is where the money is. Prices are definitely going up. This is a great thread. Thanks to everyone for posting. Chuck
  Reply
#14
Chuck,
Your friend shouldn't be in any negotiations with insurance company's at all.
Thats the problem with the whole insurance co / body shop relationship..The body shop owner who allows the insurance company to become his business partner without any financial investment or assuming any liability what so ever for the work or the shop & dictate how the car is going to get repaired is a fool.. is not a true business person hes just sleeping in the same bed selling his soul to the devil to get the work because hes scared to stand up to them may lose some business. Again thats the real problem..I kicked plenty of Insurance company's out of my shop refused to do work "at their rate" & refused to repair cars the way they wanted..I'm the expert who has the investment & spent years perfecting my talent & trade I'm the guy liable for the repair I'm the guy paying the overhead NOT THEM.. it's my name that rolls out on the finished product.. WHEN A INSURANCE CO STICKS THEIR HAND IN THEIR POCKET & PUTS IN 250,000 INTO MY BUSINESS THEN THEY CAN HAVE A SAY..If they knew how to repair cars so well they'd be in the repair business.They aren't.
I went to court quite a few times against insurance co's on behalf of my customers WON EVERY TIME. If your friend was smart he'd tell the insurance co this is my rate IT'S NON negotiable. This whole insurance co body shop relationship IS one of the primary reasons that cars ARE NOT BEING REPAIRED PROPERLY When a guy needs a certain amount for a proper repair & the insurance company won't pay that amount corners & quality get cut that's the sad reality. So till guys like your friend & every other body shop owner take a stand kick the insurance co's out of their shop ,DO THE REPAIR FOR THE TRUE COSTUMER which is the person who OWNS THE CAR nothing is going change.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueqV1rr7YWE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28SQLXxf...z6_RpqQEdA

LOVE OF BEAUTY IS TASTE..THE CREATION OF BEAUTY IS ART
[+] 1 user Likes Qcode351mach's post
  Reply
#15
IT'S ABOUT TIME !!!
Glad to finally see some shops grow a set of nuts Fight back against the legalized thieves the insurance co's are
http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/11/us/auto-re...index.html

LOVE OF BEAUTY IS TASTE..THE CREATION OF BEAUTY IS ART
  Reply
#16
I really didn't see where the reoair shop owner Chuck mentioned above is not standing up to the insurance companies.
With all due respect --- I think the word negotiations got bent a little. As I'm sure you know - communications/negotiations are required between shop owners and insurance companies for almost every claim filed. If a shop owner doesn't or maybe doesn't feel it is necessary they are probably not representing their customers very well. Insurance companies can't see what the craftsmen uncover as the repairs are attempted and to ensure proper repairs are completed, communications/negotiations ensue. Sounds like the body man Chuck mentioned is actually not falling under the pressure from the insurance companies. I wish there were more like his. I'd feel a lot more comfortable about related repairs...

Ray

1971 Boss 351  
1972 Q code 4 speed convertible 
1971 Mustang Sportsroof  351-2V FMX 
1973 Mach 1 (parts car)
  Reply
#17
Boss1Ray;214862 Wrote:I really didn't see where the reoair shop owner Chuck mentioned above is not standing up to the insurance companies.
With all due respect --- I think the word negotiations got bent a little. As I'm sure you know - communications/negotiations are required between shop owners and insurance companies for almost every claim filed. If a shop owner doesn't or maybe doesn't feel it is necessary they are probably not representing their customers very well. Insurance companies can't see what the craftsmen uncover as the repairs are attempted and to ensure proper repairs are completed, communications/negotiations ensue. Sounds like the body man Chuck mentioned is actually not falling under the pressure from the insurance companies. I wish there were more like his. I'd feel a lot more comfortable about related repairs...

Ray
Ray,
The whole Idea of the body shop negotiating with insurance companys is where the body shop owners took a wrong turn..The owner of the car is the person who has the contract with the insurance co not the body shop..Body shops should be more like doctors are, Ever notice the sign in a doctors office "we will gladly submit your insurance co paper work but YOU are responsible for payment in full" Body shops should be doing the same. You don't see insurance co's sending appraisers to doctors offices to negotiate claims inspect the damages (cars people the claim process is the same) EXCEPT with cars body shops allow a representative of the insurance co on the premises to negotiate..All I'm saying is it's kinda hard & insulting when someone who's never repaired a car in their life (most appraisers adjusters) WALKS INTO your HOUSE & dictates how to repair the car & how much they are going to pay..Didn't work for me & I never let them tell me otherwise..I sent plenty of them packing don't ever come back..Customer had to pay the difference if they wanted the repair..Just like the Doctors office does. If you don't do that then you end up with cars repaired poorly like in the above videos..I had a conscious & reputation to maintain liked to sleep well at night knowing I did the right thing. Negotiating a repair with the insurance co is doing nothing to help your customer get them the best quality repair the insurance co is there to get that repair as cheap as possible PERIOD..If you let them dictate to you that repair, you shortchange your TRUE customer THE CAR OWNER. Again the insurance co is NOT your friend nor your customer..

LOVE OF BEAUTY IS TASTE..THE CREATION OF BEAUTY IS ART
  Reply
Share Thread:  


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Please read Drake made the lower control arms backwards Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs 5 261 02-21-2019, 05:33 PM
Last Post: Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs
  Reproduction apron repairs 1973grandeklar 10 1,951 07-15-2014, 05:54 PM
Last Post: stevehcode



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)