• 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Matching Numbers
#1
I've owned my 72 Mach since '79, unfortunately when I was young and dumb I sold the original 351C 2bl to buy a "fresh" 351C 2bl out of a 72 Torino. Aside from being young and dumb I did not have the cash/time/confidence to rebuild the original motor. Fast forward I have a little more (not much more) cash/time/confidence to put the car back together. After 30+ years of searching for a donor car I found a 72 Grandé (build date 11/71, registered 6/72) in my area with all the stuff my car is/was missing, ie power disc brakes, factory A/C and an most importantly the original 351C 2bl (currently has a 4bl intake/carb on 2bl heads). My car has a build date of 4/72 and was origianlly registered 6/72, my question is are these two build dates close enough to be considerd matching numbers when I swap the parts from my donor car to mine? Huh

Thanks for your help in this matter..... FYI I should have some fairly nice southwestern condition parts left over if you are in the Phoenix metro area.

And a big Thank You to all you veterans who may be reading! Happy Memorial Day!!



Attached Files
.jpg   IMG_4044.JPG (Size: 56.68 KB / Downloads: 105)
.jpg   IMG_4041.JPG (Size: 70.33 KB / Downloads: 108)
.jpg   IMG_4014.JPG (Size: 69.77 KB / Downloads: 103)
.jpg   IMG_4011.JPG (Size: 62.02 KB / Downloads: 104)
  Reply
#2
nope, all 71-73 had the partial VIN number stamped on the drivers side rear of the engine.

some also had the partial Vin stamped on the top of the transmission case.

matching numbers on these cars really means matching numbers.

the early mustangs didn't have a VIN stamp so they went by the approximate date codes just before the build date of the body.
  Reply
#3
Thanks for the quick reply! Not what I was hoping for, sounds like a real needle in a haystack to find the "original" motor. I must have been thinking about the earlys for the matching numbers.

Did the factory "stamp" the block? I'm assuming that there is no way to cast the parital VIN numbers in the block...

FYI I did keep the old block ID that was on the coil housing.... is there a way to restamp the block or is that cheating?

On a side note, if you bought a 351C 2bl block sometime in 1980 in Las Vegas, NV for your daughters car from a young and dumb teenager with a 72 blue Mach 1 I would love to talk to you!
  Reply
#4
the block was stamped, not cast.

anything involving re-stamping i wouldn't even discuss.
  Reply
#5
So what are your intentions for the car? Are you going to create a concurs show car? Are you going to try to sell it for top dollar? Are you going to create an awesome car for you to drive and show? If you are doing the first you will lose points (although honestly I had no idea part of the vin was stamped on the motor). If you doing the second then it would be bogus to 'restamp' it. If you are doing the third then I wouldn't worry about it too much.


'Mike'
73 Convertible - 351C/4V CC heads/4bolt/forged flat tops/comp 270/rhodes/mallory unilite/tri-power/hookers/glasspacks/c6/3.50 limited slip/Gear Vendors/Global West sub frames, strut rods and shelby style traction bars/ Rear sway bar/tilt steering (not original)

Pics of modifications included in:
  Reply
#6
will e;25082 Wrote:So what are your intentions for the car? Are you going to create a concurs show car? Are you going to try to sell it for top dollar? Are you going to create an awesome car for you to drive and show? If you are doing the first you will lose points (although honestly I had no idea part of the vin was stamped on the motor). If you doing the second then it would be bogus to 'restamp' it. If you are doing the third then I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Agree would be bogus to restamp and call it matching numbers. Maybe just having a correct motor, same year/model will be good enough for me or the next owner when I'm gone. Since it's an H code, nothing against H codes, I wouldn't go through all the trouble and mostly expense to find all matching part numbers to make it concurs. A real nice daily driver with mostly authentic parts is what I had in mind. Maybe if the price starts gaining ground on the Boss 351's and the 429's and the car and I are still around, I may go the additional expense. But w/o the original motor and no way to get closer to the original motor than I am now, I can't see a $10k-$15k frame on restoration, neither would my wife unless I could convince her that the money would be coming back. I hate to break it down to dollars so much, especailly since I really do love the car, but have 1 son in college and another one a few years behind, so I have to keep my priorities straight for now...

Great conversation!


72HCODE;25081 Wrote:the block was stamped, not cast.

anything involving re-stamping i wouldn't even discuss.

Agreed would not be honest to pass as original, would have been for asthetics only not to increase value... I do have the original transmission, but 1/2 original doesn't really do anything. Are there any other parts that are VIN stamped besides the motor and tranny?

Is the stamp the last few digits of the VIN? I'm wondering what my odds of finding a/the matching motor? What do people do when they break thier motor beyond repair, can it never be original again?

Thanks for the insight, never heard of the stamp.

  Reply
#7
Yes and no. Yes the parts are all period correct and can be used, but no to the block. Partial vin would be Year, Assembler, and sequential unit numbers
Only familiar with the 351C and on mine it's located on the rear driver's side of the block just below the cylinder head. Sadly, I've seen stamping kits on ebay for Harley Motorcycles and American muscle cars. These stamping dies are exact reproduction and with same size fonts used. I've seen a set used for bank safe deposite boxes etc.. and one can easily create a new vin and you'd never know. It's sad, but that easy. The vins on these old blocks were not that well placed on the blocks. Some are struck deeper than others and not in a perfect line or spaced out properly. I've seen some with numbers that overlaped. Good luck with your search!
  Reply
#8
Does a really matching number car increase its value or maybe a everything matching is the good valuable car?...

For example... i´ve seen a lot of engine matching numbers cars but.. dont know... the incorrect wiring for example... What should be the way to go for a real valuable car?

I´m very out of the market actually and here in Uruguay, any Mustang is valued is 30K or even more, including the everywhere common 1970 hardtops... So... here if you have a good car, you always defend your money...

I´m not a car dealer either so i´m judging about my personal eye here... In the forum we have a lot of examples of good all original cars... I remember right now Mike´s vert (OLE PONY) that is 100% original except for a great repaint done a couple of years ago... That for me is the trully valuable car... There is some other examples on 1 owner mach 1 etc that has been well kept during the years...

Well... i´m a fan of factory stock cars and if i were a rich guy i´ll buy that kind of cars! jeje... I happen to have a very close to original car myself and i´m doing my best to go in a lifetime project of trully restore it as it came out of the factory... Well.. that´s my hope and who knows if i´m gonna be able to do that eventually but in the midtime, i just do what is necessary to have fun driving my car... MAybe you can start doing a good reliable car and then, try to get part by part, as close to originality as you can get... enjoying the process... That´s my mind at least...

Ohh... before I end this post... You sold the original engine.. why dont you try track it out? You know... I bought a SLC 350, 1972 Mercedes Benz some time ago... it is an European version and i love that car...

I bought it cheap with a 300 diessel engine on it, and a missing V8 of course... Well.. to make a long story short.. looking for a Mercedes V8 engine for the car, i found THE engine someone took off this car in 1989... YES, MATCHING NUMBERS! je... It´s been a 2 years ride and it doesn´t run yet but bottom line... Your original engine is somewhere... maybe you get lucky and find it.. why not?



Damián Cool

[Image: 120x45bk1ani.gif]
Vote For 7173Mustangs.Com Every Day!
  Reply
#9
Does a really matching number car increase its value or maybe a everything matching is the good valuable car?...

Depends on the car.

you have a Super cobra jet, a matching number on the trans and engine will increase value.
a matching number boss 351 would be more then a replacement block 351.

you have an 302 or a run of the mill 250 Grandé car then no, unless you can prove it was a significant car.
A high option car is pretty rare if you had a fully loaded MACH 1 and the driveline was replaced it would still be worth a lot, obviously more if it was matching number.

I've had friends with 1 of 1 convertibles, that were pretty much worthless on the market.

i've also seen a 302 car that was converted into a SCJ clone go for crazy money. the devil is in the details.

there are tons of H codes around, including mine, they do not have much value other then they were born as a 351 engine.
larger engines are more desirable, but you could take a H code and Throw a Q code or R code motor in the car and make it more valuable.

my car has a matching engine but not a matching driveline. my transmission was switched from the original FMX to a C6 and my rear axle ratio was changed from 2.75 to 3.00
  Reply
#10
I understand what you are saying Danny... and it is logical too... If the important stuff is rare, powerful and factory original, then the car will worth more than another more common one...

My car is a 1 of 1, regarding the body style, engine and transmision, but we stablish it won't worth more than any other well preserved 72 fastback so the 1 of 1 factor doesn´t mean more money but yet, it could mean a reason to preserve the car the way factory built it back then.

Maybe Machi was trying to find out if a good frame off restorarion is suitable for the condition of no originality and for me, that´s a good YES... IF you do a good job in a common car, you are gonna end up owning a great classic car that will worth the effort in money... If you a not that good job in the car, you are gonna end up driving an uncomfortable car, with lots of details that will make you unhappy, besides, every bad spent dollar will NOT help the car on a sale...

In my opinion, if you like the car and you are thinking of getting close to originality, that´s more than enough even if the car is not so original and not so rare either... Whatever you do to be close to original for me, is money well spent... Any modification is up to you and a specific future buyier...

You Danny are doing a great job in your car.. we all see your detailing and it is great.. well... that for me, is money well spent... the car is gonna defend it if you have to sale it in the future... The same job doing cheap is not going to last good till the time of sale the car... the car is going to show it is been bad treated and the buyier will not pay for those bucks you spent wrong to make it cheap...

Any of our cars is going to worth more as the time goes by... a good close to originality restoration will make the difference in some years... A 351 Boss is going to worth 100K but any of our "normal" cars are going to defend the money we invested in them too...




Damián Cool

[Image: 120x45bk1ani.gif]
Vote For 7173Mustangs.Com Every Day!
  Reply
Share Thread:  


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  production numbers ? nailpounder 14 1,249 04-15-2015, 06:37 AM
Last Post: jhawk635
  Mustangs By The Numbers T-K 6 1,177 01-03-2012, 08:04 PM
Last Post: vamach1
  D-numbers - Collision Estimating Guide Maiden Dearborn 6 1,965 01-05-2011, 08:29 PM
Last Post: 73vertproject



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)