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Just another Cooling Question
#1
After reading another post regarding thermostats, I learned three things.
I can operate my 4V Cleveland; 1)with the wrong stat, 2)with no stat, 3)with the Cleveland correct stat. So why do I even need a stat? I know it is a dumb question but why not have all the water flowing through the radiator all the time?

mike

[Image: 1_11_11_13_11_50_27.png]
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#2
goodnigh;29623 Wrote:After reading another post regarding thermostats, I learned three things.
I can operate my 4V Cleveland; 1)with the wrong stat, 2)with no stat, 3)with the Cleveland correct stat. So why do I even need a stat? I know it is a dumb question but why not have all the water flowing through the radiator all the time?

mike
Consider two situations: One, it is cold outside and you want the engine to come to operating temperature for at least two reasons. You want heat in the car and more importantly engine wear is much higher when the engine is cold. Two, it is hot outside and you do not want the engine to over heat. The heated coolant must linger in the radiator long enough for the heat to be dissapated through the fins to the air. If there is no restriction the coolant can flow through the radiator to quickly to be effectively cooled. Chuck
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#3
As said above all three scenarios you gave will cause problems. As cheap as a T stat is why bother, buy the correct one and move on to more important issues, trouble free driving
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#4
c9zx;29624 Wrote:
goodnigh;29623 Wrote:After reading another post regarding thermostats, I learned three things.
I can operate my 4V Cleveland; 1)with the wrong stat, 2)with no stat, 3)with the Cleveland correct stat. So why do I even need a stat? I know it is a dumb question but why not have all the water flowing through the radiator all the time?

mike
Consider two situations: One, it is cold outside and you want the engine to come to operating temperature for at least two reasons. You want heat in the car and more importantly engine wear is much higher when the engine is cold. Two, it is hot outside and you do not want the engine to over heat. The heated coolant must linger in the radiator long enough for the heat to be dissapated through the fins to the air. If there is no restriction the coolant can flow through the radiator to quickly to be effectively cooled. Chuck

I agree completely with your explanations. Your Number Two reason was a common misconception back in the 70's; way back then I use to manage an auto parts store and many customers came in and could not understand why their car overheated when they removed the thermostat. I had to explain to them the coolant was circulating too fast and did not have time to cool down in the radiator.



Mike AKA Ole Pony & Rare Pony

Our current Mustang garage/driveway
1973 Mustang Convert - Bought in 1974 - Still have it!
2004 Mach 1 Oxford White Auto, Bought Sept 06


[Image: 20180127_082009.jpg]

upload a photo on internet




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#5
c9zx;29624 Wrote:
goodnigh;29623 Wrote:After reading another post regarding thermostats, I learned three things.
I can operate my 4V Cleveland; 1)with the wrong stat, 2)with no stat, 3)with the Cleveland correct stat. So why do I even need a stat? I know it is a dumb question but why not have all the water flowing through the radiator all the time?

mike
Consider two situations: One, it is cold outside and you want the engine to come to operating temperature for at least two reasons. You want heat in the car and more importantly engine wear is much higher when the engine is cold. Two, it is hot outside and you do not want the engine to over heat. The heated coolant must linger in the radiator long enough for the heat to be dissapated through the fins to the air. If there is no restriction the coolant can flow through the radiator to quickly to be effectively cooled. Chuck

As Chuck said, but let me add and clarify something.
1) with wrong stat = Correct Ford 302/351 TStat but not Cleveland "specific" will still work. Chevy TStat will not work.
2) No Tstat = I'm in Hawaii were the temperature is constant year round, so no TStat worked for some, but like Roy said, "Cheap, why bother buy the correct one and move on"
3) with Cleveland correct TStat = best thing for the engine if you still have the Cleveland specific restrictor ring to make the Correct TStat perform the way it was designed to. Without this restrictor, the Cleveland Specific TStat is just another small block Ford correct TStat.

The TStat is like a normally closed switch. It needs something to turn it on or open. So, lets use the 192* TStat for example. When the TStat is in the closed position and the engine is cold, no coolant is circulating to cool the engine down. With this in mind, it'll get to its desired temperature of 192* much faster than if you didn't have a TStat installed. When the temp. of the engine reaches 192* then the TStat will open thus allowing coolant to flow. Drop below this temperature and it'll close again.
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#6
While some professional water pump sources disagree with the "linger" explanation, I have seen the "no thermostat over heat scenario" many times in the last 35 years. The same professional water pump site says their thermostat does not restrict coolant flow. Sounds counter intuitive to me but, maybe they know much that I do not. Proper cooling system design is not as simple as it may seem. Chuck
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#7
Tnfastbk;29625 Wrote:As said above all three scenarios you gave will cause problems. As cheap as a T stat is why bother, buy the correct one and move on to more important issues, trouble free driving

I hear ya. Something more important like, according to an article I read, putting a 0.600 cam in it Smile

mike

[Image: 1_11_11_13_11_50_27.png]
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#8
goodnigh;29646 Wrote:
Tnfastbk;29625 Wrote:As said above all three scenarios you gave will cause problems. As cheap as a T stat is why bother, buy the correct one and move on to more important issues, trouble free driving

I hear ya. Something more important like, according to an article I read, putting a 0.600 cam in it Smile

mike

You can go Small if you like I guessUndecided
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#9
Don't tell my brother I said this, but leaving your parking brakes on while driving around makes your engine overheat too! It's tough on the brakes too! Big Grin



Mike AKA Ole Pony & Rare Pony

Our current Mustang garage/driveway
1973 Mustang Convert - Bought in 1974 - Still have it!
2004 Mach 1 Oxford White Auto, Bought Sept 06


[Image: 20180127_082009.jpg]

upload a photo on internet




  Reply
#10
c9zx;29636 Wrote:While some professional water pump sources disagree with the "linger" explanation, I have seen the "no thermostat over heat scenario" many times in the last 35 years. The same professional water pump site says their thermostat does not restrict coolant flow. Sounds counter intuitive to me but, maybe they know much that I do not. Proper cooling system design is not as simple as it may seem. Chuck

Hi Chuck,
You're right! I found out that proper cooling system with our 351C engines are not as simple as it may seem. Pantera owners have been dealing with overheating for years and so one Pantera enthusiast comes up with a solution called a "block off plate" Anyhow, I'm not an expert, so I'll post pics and links for all to view and draw their own conclusions. I spoke with one of these experts named Mark over at IPSCO.com and he explained to me how the plate works and how they've been doing it for years with soldering a copper penny. Although the Pantera shares the same 351C 4v engines as our Mustangs, they vary slightly, but he said these plates should work in the same way.
Water Flow 101. Couldn't find a coolant flow diagram for the 351C but here are some of a 302.
[Image: 11agz6r.jpg]
[Image: 29fsh75.jpg]
Part # DOAZ-8K517-A .......Ford Discontinued Item in 1999
[Image: 34tejrt.gif]
[Image: rbzgc8.jpg]
Block off Plate
[Image: sc5i04.jpg]
Cougar website explains cooling problems and using block off plate
http://www.mercurycougar.net/forums/show...ds-run-hot.
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