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Issues after replacing timing chain.
#1
Hi

Looking for some guidance on my 72 Grandé H code 351 Cleveland. I just replaced the timing chain, I used an edelbrock #7821 that by the way was a very tight fit had to pry a little to get it in. Also replaced fuel pump, and water pump. Started the car and there  was a ticking noise, shut it off within a minute, checked the oil and noticed that some radiator fluid had gone into the oil. Could I have over tighten the timing chain cover that I damaged the gasket causing the radiator fluid to zip through? Could the timing chain just be to tight that is causing that ticking noise? Any advise would be appreciated.
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#2
Several questions - First - why did you replace it? Second - when you say pry how do you mean? Prying to get the gears to slide back or prying to get the gear separated far enough to go on? Also - did you change the oil after you got it back together and how much is some antifreeze?

Kilgon


"The only dumb question is the one not asked"
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#3
It is highly unlikely that the timing chain will cause a "ticking" sound because of being new and taught. New gearsets and chains should be without slack when installing. Having the timing set up inside the block's front casting can make the install more challenging, but it's more the nature of the beast, than a problem. As far as any thoughts about the "ticking" sound, sometimes changing out a stock width timing chain and gears with a wider, or, double roller set may have a slight interference with something like the block, timing cover, fuel pump arm, improper fuel pump eccentric mounting, or even, sometimes the oil slinger is moved a bit farther forward to contact the timing cover. On many performance builds , the oil slinger is removed if an interference is found. Longshots, maybe, but worth thinking about. If your water in the oil deal is new since the timing set change, I can only guess that somewhere the seal up job on the timing coverplate - to - block, is the culprit. Longshot here, is that now and again a badly corroded steel cover plate can develop a pinhole. Corroded cover plates on a Cleveland is something that should always be inspected when doing a water pump or removing the cover. Maybe, it's something simple, like the re-installed water pump pulley slightly hitting something that is sticking out a tad more than originally.
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#4
Here are some thoughts. The tick could be related to using the double roller with the oil slinger if you reused it. Since the roller is wider there could be an interference with the oil slinger.
In regards to the coolant in the oil. Did you use thread sealant on the pump bolts. If i remember correctly there are a few bolts that should have sealant to avoid leakage.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Image: 20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg]

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump
Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes
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#5
+1 on the thread sealant and the timing chain interference.

It's also possible that some debris or antifreeze is in a lifter.

Another thought on the ticking. Did you prime the carburetor before installing it? If so that would keep your engine running for a minute. Did you make sure the new fuel pump arm is on top of the eccentric? It's easy to install it with the arm below the eccentric, where it will make noise, and will not pump.



“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
--Albert Einstein
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#6
Spike Morelli


It was challenging getting the timing chain on, a lot more that on my 77 c10 sbc. Any way it was a swap from the original timing chain set to a double roller, which leads me to believe that I may have one of the issues that you mention, or it could be all of them, since I did reuse the old oil slinger. I did check for clearance between the top gear and block as much as I could. I strongly believe that it may be the fuel pump arm possibly hitting the timing chain, since I didn’t check clearance and the ticking noise came from that side. On the oil slinger do they make thinner ones or would it be fine without if It is the culprit? As for the coolant in the oil it is new. It is very little but enough to see that is in there. I did check the timing cove for corrosion and it had very minimal not enough to even make me doubt about reusing the cover. I put a small bead uf black rtv on both sides of the timing gasket as well as grey rtv on the water pump. I did torque all the bolts at 20ft since couldn’t find any torque specs. Not sure if this is to tight or to loose? Will be taking it apart this weekend and checking all the points that were mentioned.

Tony-Muscle

I will be checking that oil slinger for sure. I didn’t use any sealant in any bolts since I read that only use it on the water jacket bolt holes. I didn’t find any water jacket bolt holes on my block. I poked every hole withe a wire and all came to dead end within an inch or so, also most of the holes I could feel the dead end when I stuck my hand in the block. Should I have used rtv anyway?


Don C,

I didn’t prime the carb,

Yes, the fuel pump was installed on the top of the eccentric.


Kilgone,

Timing chain needed replacement, very little coolant in the oil. Did not change the oil after the timing belt since it was changed recently. I pry the top gear to make it go into the cam shaft.

Again thank you all for the advise, will keep you posted.
  Reply
#7
(01-16-2020, 11:53 AM)Federico Wrote: Spike Morelli


It was challenging getting the timing chain on, a lot more that on my 77 c10 sbc. Any way it was a swap from the original timing chain set to a double roller, which  leads me to believe that I may have one of the issues that you mention, or it could be all of them, since I did reuse the old oil slinger. I did check for clearance between the top gear and block as much as I could. I strongly believe that it may be the fuel pump arm possibly hitting the timing chain, since I didn’t check clearance and the ticking noise came from that side. On the oil slinger do they make thinner ones or would it be fine without if It is the culprit? As for the coolant in the oil it is new. It is very little but enough to see that is in there. I did check the timing cove for corrosion and it had very minimal not enough to even make me doubt about reusing the cover. I put a small bead uf black rtv on both sides of the timing gasket as well as grey rtv on the water pump. I did torque all the bolts at 20ft since couldn’t find any torque specs. Not sure if this is to tight or to loose?  Will be taking it apart this weekend and checking point just mentioned.

Tony-Muscle

I will be checking that oil slinger for sure. I didn’t use any sealant in any bolts since I read that only use it on the water jacket bolt holes. I didn’t find any water jacket bolt holes on my block. I poked every hole withe a wire and all came to dead end within an inch or so, also most of the holes I could feel the dead end  I stuck my hand in the block. Should I have used rtv anyway? 


Don C,

I didn’t prime the carb,

Yes, the fuel pump was installed on the top of the eccentric.


Kilgone,

Timing chain needed replacement, very little coolant in the oil. Did not change the oil after the timing belt since it was changed recently. I pry the top gear to make it go into the cam shaft.

Again thank you all for the advise, will keep you posted.
In regards to the slinger I was told that I didn't need one. By no means I consider myself and engine builder expert, but I followed the instructions of one. From what you are describing, I like the theory of the fuel pump lever interfering. Regardless, you will have to disassemble to inspect.

In regards to the pump bolts here is an extract from the shop manual. They recommend coating the screws (#7). I have also read this in Cleveland engine books.
[Image: Timing-Chain-install-351-C.jpg]

[Image: 20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg]

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump
Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes
  Reply
#8
(01-16-2020, 01:48 PM)tony-muscle Wrote:
(01-16-2020, 11:53 AM)Federico Wrote: Spike Morelli


It was challenging getting the timing chain on, a lot more that on my 77 c10 sbc. Any way it was a swap from the original timing chain set to a double roller, which  leads me to believe that I may have one of the issues that you mention, or it could be all of them, since I did reuse the old oil slinger. I did check for clearance between the top gear and block as much as I could. I strongly believe that it may be the fuel pump arm possibly hitting the timing chain, since I didn’t check clearance and the ticking noise came from that side. On the oil slinger do they make thinner ones or would it be fine without if It is the culprit? As for the coolant in the oil it is new. It is very little but enough to see that is in there. I did check the timing cove for corrosion and it had very minimal not enough to even make me doubt about reusing the cover. I put a small bead uf black rtv on both sides of the timing gasket as well as grey rtv on the water pump. I did torque all the bolts at 20ft since couldn’t find any torque specs. Not sure if this is to tight or to loose?  Will be taking it apart this weekend and checking point just mentioned.

Tony-Muscle

I will be checking that oil slinger for sure. I didn’t use any sealant in any bolts since I read that only use it on the water jacket bolt holes. I didn’t find any water jacket bolt holes on my block. I poked every hole withe a wire and all came to dead end within an inch or so, also most of the holes I could feel the dead end  I stuck my hand in the block. Should I have used rtv anyway? 


Don C,

I didn’t prime the carb,

Yes, the fuel pump was installed on the top of the eccentric.


Kilgone,

Timing chain needed replacement, very little coolant in the oil. Did not change the oil after the timing belt since it was changed recently. I pry the top gear to make it go into the cam shaft.

Again thank you all for the advise, will keep you posted.
In regards to the slinger I was told that I didn't need one. By no means I consider myself and engine builder expert, but I followed the instructions of one. From what you are describing, I like the theory of the fuel pump lever interfering. Regardless, you will have to disassemble to inspect.

In regards to the pump bolts here is an extract from the shop manual. They recommend coating the screws (#7). I have also read this in Cleveland engine books.
[Image: Timing-Chain-install-351-C.jpg]
Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.
  Reply
#9
(01-16-2020, 03:04 PM)Federico Wrote:
(01-16-2020, 01:48 PM)tony-muscle Wrote:
(01-16-2020, 11:53 AM)Federico Wrote: Spike Morelli


It was challenging getting the timing chain on, a lot more that on my 77 c10 sbc. Any way it was a swap from the original timing chain set to a double roller, which  leads me to believe that I may have one of the issues that you mention, or it could be all of them, since I did reuse the old oil slinger. I did check for clearance between the top gear and block as much as I could. I strongly believe that it may be the fuel pump arm possibly hitting the timing chain, since I didn’t check clearance and the ticking noise came from that side. On the oil slinger do they make thinner ones or would it be fine without if It is the culprit? As for the coolant in the oil it is new. It is very little but enough to see that is in there. I did check the timing cove for corrosion and it had very minimal not enough to even make me doubt about reusing the cover. I put a small bead uf black rtv on both sides of the timing gasket as well as grey rtv on the water pump. I did torque all the bolts at 20ft since couldn’t find any torque specs. Not sure if this is to tight or to loose?  Will be taking it apart this weekend and checking point just mentioned.

Tony-Muscle

I will be checking that oil slinger for sure. I didn’t use any sealant in any bolts since I read that only use it on the water jacket bolt holes. I didn’t find any water jacket bolt holes on my block. I poked every hole withe a wire and all came to dead end within an inch or so, also most of the holes I could feel the dead end  I stuck my hand in the block. Should I have used rtv anyway? 


Don C,

I didn’t prime the carb,

Yes, the fuel pump was installed on the top of the eccentric.


Kilgone,

Timing chain needed replacement, very little coolant in the oil. Did not change the oil after the timing belt since it was changed recently. I pry the top gear to make it go into the cam shaft.

Again thank you all for the advise, will keep you posted.
In regards to the slinger I was told that I didn't need one. By no means I consider myself and engine builder expert, but I followed the instructions of one. From what you are describing, I like the theory of the fuel pump lever interfering. Regardless, you will have to disassemble to inspect.

In regards to the pump bolts here is an extract from the shop manual. They recommend coating the screws (#7). I have also read this in Cleveland engine books.
[Image: Timing-Chain-install-351-C.jpg]
Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.
[Image: 725-B38-D7-D443-4404-A633-91-FB455-DAA87.jpg]
Took everything apart. Fuel pump arm is not interfering anywhere, eccentric is in place, oil slinger does not appear to be rubbing on the timing cover. I also checked for clearance between the block and top gear and no interference there either. Any other suggestions??
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