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Intake valley pan, reuse it???
#1
I pulled the cast iron intake manifold off and am replacing it with an edelbrock intake.  I have noticed that the replacement intake gasket sets do not come with a new lifter valley pan.  Do I reuse the one that was on it?  Do I reuse the pan at all???  The reason I ask whether or not to use the pan is because I have watched several 351c tear down videos and some engines did not have this pan on it when they pulled the stock intakes.

So use it or lose it??  
If I use it do I buy a new one or clean and reuse the one that is in there?

Thanks!
Wade
1972 Mach 1 351 cj 4speed
"We confide in our strength, without boasting of it; we respect that of others, without fearing it."--Thomas Jefferson

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#2
Don’t use it or the crappy rubber end gaskets either. Just use The Right Stuff on the ends only. Make sure you put a good 3/8-1/2” bead of it on. Test fit it on before you put any of the gasket maker on to make sure you get it all lined up.
Also use gaskacinch on the head side only of the intake gaskets to help hold them in position. Don’t put anything on the intake side of the gaskets, they should be dry.
Good luck!

run_horse Run Horse Run!
John 72 Q Code
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#3
Never re-use the pan as a gasket. In fact I don't believe it's a good idea to use it with an aluminum intake manifold (as is) due to the different heat expansion coefficients. The movement of the aluminum on the steel gasket will wear a groove in the aluminum. I have a Shelby (Blue Thunder) intake manifold with the wear from a turkey pan gasket.

The purpose of the pan is to keep hot oil from splashing on the bottom of the intake, helping to keep the air\fuel cooler. The pan can be trimmed to use it in conjunction with regular gaskets, also needs to have drain holes drilled in it.

The turkey pan has been discussed several times on the forum, here's a couple of examples, you can search for more.
https://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-seek...eat-shield?

https://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-inta...stallation?

I have a picture of a trimmed pan and can take a picture of the wear pattern on my intake, if anyone is interested.



“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
--Albert Einstein
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#4
Do not reuse the old one but I would put one back on all the sealing beads have been crushed.
Do not understand the comment about the movement of the intake on the pan wearing it. If you get a new Fel Pro pan it comes with two thin gaskets that go on either side of the metal pan so neither the head or intake really touch the metal pan.
I personally have never had any issues using the rubber end seals either. I do apply a thin coat of black RTV to both side of the rubber seals and the gasket under the intake. You do not need lots. A little extra in the corners to insure the corner of intake to block head gets closed.
If I remember right the Fel Pro gasket is like $45.00. I do not have number in my head but can go to garage and get it. I also use Fel Pro head gaskets with nothing on them at all. Clean head and block with razor blade & parts cleaner and torque to mfg. recommendations. Be 100% sure that you put the head gaskets on with the word FRONT to the front of the engine or it will run hot. The big square hole goes to the front. Take a picture before you put the head on so you know how it was installed. Some people turn the logos up on both gaskets and that puts one on wrong. FRONT to FRONT always works.
If the engine is in the vehicle and you have not help it is much easier to install the heads if you have two long bolts with no head on them. Screw one in either end to act as a guide to sit the head on will go much better. Same for the transmission if you have it out. Long cut off bolts in the bottom two holes and you can slide it right in.
I also run a tap into every hole in the head and the block and blow out with air. Only uses motor oil on the threads not assembly lube or you might over torque them. I use anti seize on the header bolts to keep them from locking in.
Make sure the baffle is still in the block under the thermostat and put a 192 deg. correct Cleveland thermostat in place. The Cleveland thermostat has the hat or a plunger on the end that when it opens it goes into the baffle in the block changing the water flow in the block. It works fine there is nothing wrong with the design. In the picture showing the baffle in the block I was reaching in with a wire to verify that my R.H. head gasket was put on backwards by PO.
If your header gaskets do not have the two end holes slotted like the ones in the top picture cut them out that way. That allows you to put the two end bolts in and then slide the gasket in correct place and not fight three pieces at the same time.
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When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??
Tongue
David
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#5
The pan just comes with gaskets that fit between the pan and head. The manifold sets directly on the metal pan.



“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
--Albert Einstein
  Reply
#6
(12-15-2018, 05:30 PM)Don C Wrote: The pan just comes with gaskets that fit between the pan and head. The manifold sets directly on the metal pan.

That is correct that is what I show in the pics. I put RTV on the intake side.


When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??
Tongue
David
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#7
Was just over at the 351 Cleveland forum and most do not use them and it turns out they dont work with roller cams.  Since I will be running a roller I guess thats my answer.

Thanks for the info guys!

Thanks!
Wade
1972 Mach 1 351 cj 4speed
"We confide in our strength, without boasting of it; we respect that of others, without fearing it."--Thomas Jefferson

  Reply
#8
I am interested to hear why they supposedly dont work with roller cams. I am using one with me roller cam and have no issues. No interference if thats the problem.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

        [Image: 20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg]

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump
4-wheel disc brakes
  Reply
#9
(12-16-2018, 10:44 PM)tony-muscle Wrote: I am interested to hear why they supposedly dont work with roller cams. I am using one with me roller cam and have no issues. No interference if thats the problem.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

I will ask the question on the forum and see what they say.  I just assumed it was because the lifters sit up higher with that "dog bone".

Thanks!
Wade
1972 Mach 1 351 cj 4speed
"We confide in our strength, without boasting of it; we respect that of others, without fearing it."--Thomas Jefferson

  Reply
#10
Look at this two pictures. One shows the lifters with dog bones and rail. The other shows the valley pan (note that it has been cut following the recommendations given in this forum). I can't see how will it come in contact. The valley pan sits higher than any of the components.

[Image: 20180821-225638.jpg]

[Image: 20170409-215901-mod.jpg]

        [Image: 20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg]

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump
4-wheel disc brakes
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