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Intake and head suggestion 351c 2v rebuild
#1
Yesterday I pulled my 351c 2v motor and C6 out of my 1971 Mach 1.
I will be taking the motor apart this week and sending, at least, the block to the machine shop.

I would like to build a motor with 350 to 375 hp. I will be replacing the C6 with a 4 speed toploader.

I want to convert to a 4v intake and carb. Primarily for the enjoyment of feeling those secondary's kick in. Something I haven't enjoyed in many, many, years
However, from what I have found in my search, there is not a 4v intake that will match the 2v heads correctly. I would like to keep the 2v heads, or even upgrade to an aussie closed chamber 2v head if I could find an intake that would match the heads correctly. The reason for this option would be for the low end and midrange power. That is primarily what I will be using on the street.

Another option I would consider is going with a 4v head, if there is one that would offer good low to mid power.

Thanks,
Klinton994
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#2
I have an Edelbrock Performer 351C-2V with an Edelbrock 1406 4bbl carb (600cfm). Of course, I went with a hotter roller cam, roller rockers, mild port & polish, etc., to get me there, but I should be in the 400-ish range with the factory 2V heads (after having been cleaned up and stuffed with the new goodies, of course).

I'm expecting a couple more ponies when I swap the carb for fuel injection soon.

Eric

[Image: mach1sig2.gif]
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#3
I'm running pretty much the same setup as Mister 4x4.  Actually now that I picked up a 1406 carb it may be exactly the same engine setup  Cool

With the 270hr, 2v heads, performer intake, 670 cfm carb (carb I was running before swapping), long tube headers and ignition the car is a dream on the street.  It still pulls all the way up to 5800 (cam isn't rated for it but I can't feel a drop off in power) but driving in town the response and low end torque is awesome.  Like Mister 4x4 I estimate mine to be around 375hp, but I didn't port the heads. But I wouldn't doubt if it is over 400tq. The 2v heads are still massive compared to most small block heads.

1971 Mustang Grandé, 351 Cleveland 2v, C6, 9"
-Fitech EFI
-Comp Cams 284hr
-Aussie Heads
-Weiand Xcelerator intake
-Long Tube Headers
-Boss Hogg "Street Bandit"


My Build
  Reply
#4
To be clear for the OP. From the factory the 2 barrel carburetor engines came with '2v' heads. The 2v heads have the smaller intake and exhaust ports.
From the factory any 4 barrel carburetor engine came with '4v' heads with larger ports.
However, there are many aftermarket intakes that incorporate a 4 barrel carburetor with the smaller 2v port size. The edelbrock dual plane mentioned above is a popular choice.
I hope this clears it up for ya.

Typically in the description it will indicate if the manifold is for a 2v or 4v headed car. For example:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-2.../make/ford

'Mike'
73 Convertible - 351C/4V CC heads/4bolt/forged flat tops/comp 270/rhodes/mallory unilite/tri-power/hookers/glasspacks/c6/3.50 limited slip/Gear Vendors/Global West sub frames, strut rods and shelby style traction bars/ Rear sway bar/tilt steering (not original)

Pics of modifications included in:
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#5
Do not spend the bucks for Aussie heads. A while ago it was a bargain upgrade. Now it is not. And stay away from ralph the thief at powerheads. Take a look at Kaase offers. He uses CHI (also from Australia) alum heads with awesome results. There is a 3V version with matching intake that will do EXACTLY what you want. I made 370hp with their 2V's....the 3V's are better. Best and easiest upgrade after headers. Then get the Crane goldrace lifters and manley ss valves and you eliminate most valve train problems. Those roller rockers sound like a swiss watch when the engine is idling. I stuck with hydraulic lifters to avoid adjustment costs. The hydraulic roller cam and lifters work flawlessly and flatten out the torque curve....though, you said you have a 4 speed? You probably want solid cam/lifters for the incredible Cleveland sound when you hold the rpm's up to 5700 for shifts.
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#6
(02-10-2017, 09:42 AM)will e Wrote: To be clear for the OP.  From the factory the 2 barrel carburetor engines came with '2v' heads.  The 2v heads have the smaller intake and exhaust ports.
From the factory any 4 barrel carburetor engine came with '4v' heads with larger ports.
However, there are many aftermarket intakes that incorporate a 4 barrel carburetor with the smaller 2v port size.  The edelbrock dual plane mentioned above is a popular choice.
I hope this clears it up for ya.

Typically in the description it will indicate if the manifold is for a 2v or 4v headed car.  For example:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-2.../make/ford


will e,
thank you. I knew the difference between the factory 2v and 4v heads. I am looking for a 2V closed chamber head. I thought this is what is referred to as an Aussie head. I may be mistake. I am now looking at the options that Trick flow has to offer. I dropped my block off at the machine shop this morning. The machinist understand I am looking for good low to mid range torque and power.
I am also attempting to locate a header that will fit our cars with a 4 speed transmission and power steering.
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#7
(02-10-2017, 08:51 AM)vozaday Wrote: I'm running pretty much the same setup as Mister 4x4.  Actually now that I picked up a 1406 carb it may be exactly the same engine setup  Cool

With the 270hr, 2v heads, performer intake, 670 cfm carb (carb I was running before swapping), long tube headers and ignition the car is a dream on the street.  It still pulls all the way up to 5800 (cam isn't rated for it but I can't feel a drop off in power) but driving in town the response and low end torque is awesome.  Like Mister 4x4 I estimate mine to be around 375hp, but I didn't port the heads. But I wouldn't doubt if it is over 400tq. The 2v heads are still massive compared to most small block heads.

I am looking for headers that will fit a 351 Cleveland, with 4 speed and power steering. Any suggestions?
  Reply
#8
(02-11-2017, 04:28 PM)klinton994 Wrote:
(02-10-2017, 08:51 AM)vozaday Wrote: I'm running pretty much the same setup as Mister 4x4.  Actually now that I picked up a 1406 carb it may be exactly the same engine setup  Cool

With the 270hr, 2v heads, performer intake, 670 cfm carb (carb I was running before swapping), long tube headers and ignition the car is a dream on the street.  It still pulls all the way up to 5800 (cam isn't rated for it but I can't feel a drop off in power) but driving in town the response and low end torque is awesome.  Like Mister 4x4 I estimate mine to be around 375hp, but I didn't port the heads. But I wouldn't doubt if it is over 400tq. The 2v heads are still massive compared to most small block heads.

I am looking for headers that will fit a 351 Cleveland, with 4 speed and power steering. Any suggestions?

I found an old set of Black Diamond headers, they are basic and were very inexpensive.  I believe Hooker headers bought them out a long time ago.  Mister 4x4 is running long tube headers with a 4 speed.  I have the C6 and power steering.  Everything fit great.

1971 Mustang Grandé, 351 Cleveland 2v, C6, 9"
-Fitech EFI
-Comp Cams 284hr
-Aussie Heads
-Weiand Xcelerator intake
-Long Tube Headers
-Boss Hogg "Street Bandit"


My Build
  Reply
#9
If your goals are for 350-375 even 400+ HP and equal amounts of torque then the factory 2V open chamber heads will do the job, as I've built countless number of Clevelands over the years making those numbers with hydraulic F/T cam and dual plane intake. People that bag out open chambers are those that have no idea of the Clevelands chamber design parameters. As for the 302 Cleveland closed chamber heads, I consider them unnecessary on a street engine, plus the crazy costs of them in the US. One thing you never want to do  with 2V heads is put in bigger valves, no bigger than a 2.08 on the intake side and stock size 1.65 on the exhaust side. Just run zero deck height and mill the heads to get the chambers to your desired compression ratio, which in turn allows for cam selection. As for headers, I use Hooker comps on my 4V with P/S without any fitting problems, so I couldn't see any dramas for a 2V. People that think 2V heads are crap should come down to Australia and go to the drags and see how many cast iron 2V engines that run in the low 11's or better (even in the 9's) in full weight street cars. There's a stock stroke, solid F/T cam, cast iron 2V engine up north making 670+HP and runs well into the 9's in a 3500 lb Falcon. The 2V cast stuff isn't as popular with the amount of aluminium heads for Clevelands around now, but there's still quite a few that love to use factory passenger car heads (2V) and show what's possible from the small port heads. Do your sums for the parts, machine work and any porting (by someone that knows what they're doing) unless you can do some porting yourself and I can tell you where and what to do with a 2V head to make it a good strong street head to suit your requirements.
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#10
(02-11-2017, 06:35 PM)4Vforever Wrote: If your goals are for 350-375 even 400+ HP and equal amounts of torque then the factory 2V open chamber heads will do the job, as I've built countless number of Clevelands over the years making those numbers with hydraulic F/T cam and dual plane intake. People that bag out open chambers are those that have no idea of the Clevelands chamber design parameters. As for the 302 Cleveland closed chamber heads, I consider them unnecessary on a street engine, plus the crazy costs of them in the US. One thing you never want to do  with 2V heads is put in bigger valves, no bigger than a 2.08 on the intake side and stock size 1.65 on the exhaust side. Just run zero deck height and mill the heads to get the chambers to your desired compression ratio, which in turn allows for cam selection. As for headers, I use Hooker comps on my 4V with P/S without any fitting problems, so I couldn't see any dramas for a 2V. People that think 2V heads are crap should come down to Australia and go to the drags and see how many cast iron 2V engines that run in the low 11's or better (even in the 9's) in full weight street cars. There's a stock stroke, solid F/T cam, cast iron 2V engine up north making 670+HP and runs well into the 9's in a 3500 lb Falcon. The 2V cast stuff isn't as popular with the amount of aluminium heads for Clevelands around now, but there's still quite a few that love to use factory passenger car heads (2V) and show what's possible from the small port heads. Do your sums for the parts, machine work and any porting (by someone that knows what they're doing) unless you can do some porting yourself and I can tell you where and what to do with a 2V head to make it a good strong street head to suit your requirements.
The old saying used to be 2Vs for ETs 4Vs for mph. For streeters anyway. Your right cheap alloy head's have stopped alot of people playing with 2Vs however there is a reason chi etc still make 2Vs. lots nice punchy combos up to 550 with 2V chi heads dual plane and hyd flat tappet getting about. Race Saturday night take the family for a cruise down the coast Sunday drive it to work Monday.

He has all the vices I admire and none of the virtues I despise
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