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Hooker competition headers issue
#1
Hi team
I purchased some hooker competition headers (painted but not ceramic coated) from CJ Pony parts where their advertising says they are made to fit 66-73 mustangs 302/351W engines. I an a newbie so took this as gospel. They got shipped to NZ and I have had major issues bolting them to the engine. 
The passenger side went on fine and there was about 1/2 inch clearance from the top of the flange (collector) bolt hole and the floor pan. 
Went to fit the drivers side passing them up from the bottom after unbolting the power steering box (my steering shaft was already out) and got them up to the heads. 
It was then an issue and I couldn't bolt them up because the collector was hitting the drivers floor pan. 
Tried loosening the mounts right off but still no play. Then had to disconnect the gearbox crossmember to allow the back of the engine to drop so I could then get a good face to the heads to get the bolts in. 
I know when I jack up the back of the gearbox to reattach the mount I won't be able to because they will hit. 


I then googled the issue and found it is a common issue as hooker haven't taken into account the extra deck height of the 351 over the 302. You would think this issue has been around for a long time and they would warn against this. Why do they also have the pointiest part of the flange at the top. They could have put the flattest part of the flange at the top and the bolt holes on the sides (eg rotate it around)

One blogger contacted hookers technical dept and their answer was to bash the floor pan up.. gees when someone has spent thousands $$$ replacing floor pans and nice paint job top and bottom that's a bit amateurish. 

I also took my mount off to double check at a local mount shop who confirmed I had the low mount already and there is not much metal on those low mounts to elongate the hole any more plus the rubber is hard down on the cross member mount. 

Any suggestions who has overcome this issue. 

Other than bashing my floor pan up, I presume the only alternative is to cut the flanges off, turn them around and angle them down and reweld?

Cheers

Steve
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#2
Hey Steve I thought straight away when you said they fit 302/351W there could be a problem as you say due to deck height
I would just modify the headers rather than damage your good floor pans
Too late now but for future reference our Falcon headers should fit these Mustangs
For example I purchased Proflow headers suit Cleveland 2V Falcon XR-F to fit to my 72 Mustang with RHD conversion with RRS rack/pinion and in no way expected them to fit perfectly however was surprised when they actually fitted up well with no bashing required
[+] 1 user Likes OzCoupe72's post
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#3
(11-02-2018, 03:39 AM)OzCoupe72 Wrote: Hey Steve I thought straight away when you said they fit 302/351W there could be a problem as you say due to deck height
I would just modify the headers rather than damage your good floor pans
Too late now but for future reference our Falcon headers should fit these Mustangs
For example I purchased Proflow headers suit Cleveland 2V Falcon XR-F to fit to my 72 Mustang with RHD conversion with RRS rack/pinion and in no way expected them to fit perfectly however was surprised when they actually fitted up well with no bashing required

Cheers mate
Spoke to my mechanic tonight over a beer and he said the same thing. As my motor and box have been rebuilt he suggested I get the flange/collectors cut off when I take the car to get the exhaust done (arrived in NZ with no exhaust) and just sleeve the new pipes over the end of the headers and don't weld them. I cant recall the exact term he used where the pipes just slide over the end of the headers and clamp.
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#4
Over the winter I'll be installing the 408 W in my 73 and have read several post concerning this. Do the headers clear the steering box once in place?
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#5
So I assume you have a Windsor instead of a Cleveland. My headers fit perfect but i have a Cleveland.

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        [Image: 20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg]

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump
4-wheel disc brakes
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#6
(11-03-2018, 08:57 AM)tony-muscle Wrote: So I assume you have a Windsor instead of a Cleveland. My headers fit perfect but i have a Cleveland.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Ditto.

Since '71-'73s didn't come with Windsors, could that be the issue?  I know they came with 302s, but I'm pretty sure there's not a 'one-size-fits-all' solution for 302s ranging from '64-'73.

Eric

[Image: mach1sig2.gif]
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#7
runninpony 
(11-03-2018, 02:17 PM)Mister 4x4 Wrote:
(11-03-2018, 08:57 AM)tony-muscle Wrote: So I assume you have a Windsor instead of a Cleveland. My headers fit perfect but i have a Cleveland.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Ditto.

Since '71-'73s didn't come with Windsors, could that be the issue?  I know they came with 302s, but I'm pretty sure there's not a 'one-size-fits-all' solution for 302s ranging from '64-'73.
Well, the 302 is a Windsor!

71-73 Mustangs never die, they just go faster!
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#8
(11-03-2018, 02:17 PM)Mister 4x4 Wrote:
(11-03-2018, 08:57 AM)tony-muscle Wrote: So I assume you have a Windsor instead of a Cleveland. My headers fit perfect but i have a Cleveland.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Ditto.

Since '71-'73s didn't come with Windsors, could that be the issue?  I know they came with 302s, but I'm pretty sure there's not a 'one-size-fits-all' solution for 302s ranging from '64-'73.

Hi Tony.
Yes its a 74 windsor originally out of a galaxy according to the numbers. My 73 vert numbers come back to a 302, so someone in the states dropped it in some time ago. It had rusty headers that came with the car but I have no idea how well they fitted as the engine arrived separately on a pallet as it was taken out the car 5 yrs ago when the car had panel work done in the US. I understand Hooker make different headers for the Cleveland as the ones I bought said would fit a 289/302/351W only and there were separate ones advertised to fit a cleveland which I have been told is a wider block than the windsor.  I should have googled them first and I would have seen all the problems people were having trying to fit them to a 351W. Cheers Steve
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#9
Many years ago a co-worker put a 351W in his '68 Mustang. He used some headers made for the swap, so they fit the taller deck and wider width. 302 headers would have hit the floor and steering box.

I don't remember which brand he used, but they are available
https://www.summitracing.com/search/prod...ap-headers



“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
--Albert Einstein
[+] 1 user Likes Don C's post
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#10
(11-03-2018, 02:59 PM)NOT A T5 Wrote:
(11-03-2018, 02:17 PM)Mister 4x4 Wrote:
(11-03-2018, 08:57 AM)tony-muscle Wrote: So I assume you have a Windsor instead of a Cleveland. My headers fit perfect but i have a Cleveland.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Ditto.

Since '71-'73s didn't come with Windsors, could that be the issue?  I know they came with 302s, but I'm pretty sure there's not a 'one-size-fits-all' solution for 302s ranging from '64-'73.
Well, the 302 is a Windsor!

OK - but that begs the question: is a 351W basically a bored & stoked 302, or something different (as in, the block is somewhat different to accommodate the greater displacement)?  I honestly don't know - never been worried about anything but the 351C that mine came with, so I'm not exactly up-to-snuff on other engine trivia.  

The heads are what dictates the header fitment - someone with a set of Cleveland heads should be using a set of Cleveland headers, then chase the other issues that come with the engine mount height and block dimensions - i.e., Clevelor engines (which I'm sure is not the case here).  

Aside from that, gotta determine if the block dimensions differ significantly enough to create the header fitment issues he's running into.  I think Don C's response above speaks to that.

Eric

[Image: mach1sig2.gif]
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