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High Volume Oil Pump
#1
Can someone give me an accurate answer about high volume oil pumps versus stock pumps?
Some state that the high volume will work just fine under normal driving conditions and I'll obtain greater performance(decipher that).  While others state I will overload the engine and blow various components unless those are also upgraded.

I understand the mechanics of the pump and the overall size of the cogs where we are forcing a greater amount of oil volume through constricted areas; just not what may happen in the engine with an increased volume and whether or not the 302 can handle this.  The 302 is stock and nothing has been upgraded yes with the exception of the carburetor and fuel lines.  Later, Edelbrock E-Street cylinder heads will be attached.  We are also planning on replacing the pickup and screen.

One of the other reasons for the consideration is the periodic low oil pressure.  people have suggested the increase in oil volume will repair this issue.  Presently we are running Shell Rotella 15W/40 T4 oil.


thanks


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#2
IMO, an HV pump creates more problems than it solves in a stock engine in good condition.

If you are having low oil pressure issues with 10W30, then dropping a set of new heads on a questionable bottom end is asking for problems.


[+] 1 user Likes Hemikiller's post
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#3
Well said!

Oil pressure problems come in two main varieties-

1) you think the gauge actually means what is says and

2) you have wear that is bleeding off pressure at the mains or the lifter bores etc.

1) is easy to understand-the gauges on these cars are not accurate, sometimes they aren't even close. Unless you have a mechanical gauge hooked up, you only have a hint as to what is going on,

2) Wear reduces oil pressure. Eventually, it will lead to failure if nothing else fails first. Increasing volume may mask the symptoms, but it doesn't cure them. It adds the problems of excess oil running through the returns and potentially filling up the valve covers and starving the bottom end. For this reason High Volume pumps require High volume pans.

A better matched oil might perform better for you (Though I ran that same oil for years without any problems in multiple ford engines.) Don't get scared of 15-20 PSI at idle as long as the numbers come up with the revs. I had a 351M that had almost no pressure (under 5 pounds) at idle in an old truck and I drove it for a couple of years without a problem.

[Image: 1_01_07_15_8_53_18.png]

"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!
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#4
I can't talk about 302's with HV oil pumps, but I can talk about HV pumps on a 351C. 
Back in 2012, the original, never touched motor in my 71 Mach 1, needed a refresh at 85K miles. Nothing too bad, but definitely tired. I sent the motor to a company that had a very good reputation and the owner said he knew 351C's. He chose two bad things that came back to bite him. One was an HV oil pump and the other was a Pertronix Ignitor III ignition upgrade. He also installed a set of Keith Black Hyper flat top pistons that actually up'd the comp ratio to 11:1 at zero deck, but that's a whole other story.
In short, after three summers running time, about 3500 miles, the motor started using oil like no tomorrow and making some nasty sounds. The shop owner agreed to pull the motor down and find out why, fortunately under warranty. What they found was a) the first two lobes on the cam were shot and so were the lifter (flat hydraulic), b) the main bearings were totally worn out and c) oil pan full of metal debris. The reason for the cam was the oil was just spraying past them, so they were in effect running almost dry. The debris from the cam took out the mains etc. etc. or at least that is how it was explained to me.
What it cost the shop was a cam, lifters, and bearings, Crank regrind, new main bearings, hone the cylinder bores and while at it I decided to change the pistons to KB dished top to drop the comp ratio to a more manageable 9.8:1 with quench heads (Closed Chamber) Oh! and install a standard volume oil pump set up correctly for the motor.
Since then the car has seen another 4500 miles without any issues. Oil pressure is about 50 psi idle and 70 psi running. It's also a stick shift car, so some oil usage is normal. I recently topped the oil after 1200 miles this summer and had to only add 3/4 pint.
So in short no, don't use a HV oil pump in an unmodified engine oiling system.
Geoff.
Edit, I do have a Bosch mechanical oil gauge.

PS, anybody want a HV oil pump for a 351C?????? It's FREE, Pay for shipping only. PM if interested.

I learn something new every day!
[+] 1 user Likes Stanglover's post
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#5
Stanglover Wrote:I can't talk about 302's with HV oil pumps, but I can talk about HV pumps on a 351C. 
Back in 2012, the original, never touched motor in my 71 Mach 1, needed a refresh at 85K miles. Nothing too bad, but definitely tired. I sent the motor to a company that had a very good reputation and the owner said he knew 351C's. He chose two bad things that came back to bite him. One was an HV oil pump and the other was a Pertronix Ignitor III ignition upgrade. He also installed a set of Keith Black Hyper flat top pistons that actually up'd the comp ratio to 11:1 at zero deck, but that's a whole other story.
In short, after three summers running time, about 3500 miles, the motor started using oil like no tomorrow and making some nasty sounds. The shop owner agreed to pull the motor down and find out why, fortunately under warranty. What they found was a) the first two lobes on the cam were shot and so were the lifter (flat hydraulic), b) the main bearings were totally worn out and c) oil pan full of metal debris. The reason for the cam was the oil was just spraying past them, so they were in effect running almost dry. The debris from the cam took out the mains etc. etc. or at least that is how it was explained to me.
What it cost the shop was a cam, lifters, and bearings, Crank regrind, new main bearings, hone the cylinder bores and while at it I decided to change the pistons to KB dished top to drop the comp ratio to a more manageable 9.8:1 with quench heads (Closed Chamber) Oh! and install a standard volume oil pump set up correctly for the motor.
Since then the car has seen another 4500 miles without any issues. Oil pressure is about 50 psi idle and 70 psi running. It's also a stick shift car, so some oil usage is normal. I recently topped the oil after 1200 miles this summer and had to only add 3/4 pint.
So in short no, don't use a HV oil pump in an unmodified engine oiling system.
Geoff.
Edit, I do have a Bosch mechanical oil gauge.

PS, anybody want a HV oil pump for a 351C?????? It's FREE, Pay for shipping only. PM if interested.

Thank you to all. I will not be putting the HV in the car.  You've saved me from a world of future problems
So, I also have a new HV if someone is looking for one.
Dan


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#6
(10-29-2019, 05:24 PM)Parkka Wrote:
Stanglover Wrote:PS, anybody want a HV oil pump for a 351C?????? It's FREE, Pay for shipping only. PM if interested.

Thank you to all. I will not be putting the HV in the car.  You've saved me from a world of future problems
So, I also have a new HV if someone is looking for one.
Dan
 Dan good choice, but can you send the pump back for refund, or are you stuck with it? I'm not holding my breath that someone will actually want mine.... or yours.
Before you install the standard pump, it may need to be set up, but that's out of my area of knowledge. Others can help on that for sure. Also, make sure it's a good brand, no Chinese junk.
Geoff.

I learn something new every day!
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#7
I believe that every time I've installed a new oil pump I have pulled it apart, checked clearances and relief spring, cleanliness and appearance. A $40 or $50 part can destroy a $8,000 engine in a few seconds. A new driveshaft is highly recommended, as well. Priming it with a mechanical oil pressure gauge connected is the final test.



“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
--Albert Einstein
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#8
Don C Wrote:I believe that every time I've installed a new oil pump I have pulled it apart, checked clearances and relief spring, cleanliness and appearance. A $40 or $50 part can destroy a $8,000 engine in a few seconds. A new driveshaft is highly recommended, as well. Priming it with a mechanical oil pressure gauge connected is the final test.
I'm stuck with this, but that is ok. rather be stuck with a paper weight than have the classic below not run.
it is nice to know that stang lovers are reading all of these posts regarding the hv and other components and learning valuable lessons before making a serious mistake.
You're all great !

Dan[Image: IMG-20190713-145003409.jpg]


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#9
Parkka, nice looking car you have there.
Just for info only, the pump in my engine is a Melling M84A std volume for the Cleveland engine. 
I looked up Melling Oil Pumps and found quite a good write-up that may be of interest and informative. Here is the link
https://www.melling.com/aftermarket-part...technical/
Actually, there are quite a lot of links regarding pumps, relief springs etc. on Google.
I guess the requirement is to choose a pump for the Ford 302 that will give the necessary flow and pressure recommended by Ford. ( I said "guess" and I do mean guess)
Geoff.

I learn something new every day!
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