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Here is my 408C
#1
So here's the deal on the motor. There isn't anyone around me with a really good name for engine building and especially for the Cleveland side of things. I know there are engine builders who specialize is certain engines but I guess what makes them special in squeezing every last bit of HP out of that specific engine. Saying all that to say this...a Chevy guy built my engine! I went with this guy on the recommendation of the guy whos helping me put my car back together. This guy is a math guy who builds some pretty serious LSX race engines. I only wanted one person to build the engine and this guy doesn't have people working for him. 

I'm sure there are a couple schools of though here but you're either the guy who's just having someone machine everything for you and you'll put it back together, you're the guy who's going to supply everything to the builder and hope that all goes well with what you got...or you can put it all in the builders hands and hope he can come through with your expectations for the car. I know the last requires trust and I trust my friend whos helping me.

I explained to the builder I wanted to use my factory 4V open chamber heads and was looking for a good reliable 408C street cruiser with good idle that can run on pump gas. The only parts I provided were the blue thunder intake, kevko oil pan and roller master timing chain. 

Here's what I got back. 
Scat cast crank with forged I beams and forged pistons.
Not sure of the valve springs. It says "BRE kit"
Pushrods are Manley
Camshaft is a hydraulic roller and the specs are adv dur 286/294 @.050 224/232 with a lift of .586/.609
Rockers are Scorpion 1.73's
All bolts are ARP
Valves were opened up to 2.190 (intake) and 1.710 (exhaust)
Lifters are Morel
Compression is 10:1
Carb is quick fuel 750


The rest of the set up is a TKO 600 with a .82 5th gear, 3.89's, Bilstein sport shocks, street and track roller perches,  factory upper and lower control arms, TCP 4.5 mid eye leaf springs, global west sub frame connectors, Eaton factory spring rate with 1" drop and addco 1 1/8 front sway bar. I'm sure there is some stuff I'm forgetting.

The block was bored and honed, decked, hot tank, lifter bore sizing, pin fit, pin fit small ends, mill heads, machine for seals, install bronze liners and size, valve job (Serdi style), assemble and check/set spring heights. Everything was assembled, degreed and valvetrain geometry was verified. Now I've never heard of this machine but he said he used a "whistle" machine to check and verify compression vs calculated and all checked out to 10:1. 

So now the bad...one is a simple fix. He really wanted to paint it. we'll he did! He painted everything! I for the life of me don't understand why someone paints the gasket surfaces. Some of it got into the exhaust ports. All easily able to be cleaned but the big fail was the lack of machine work for the 1 piece main seal. It just didn't happen. He said he doesn't feel it will leak. So he'll being seeing it again when it starts to leak. 

So here is the engine how it is. I still have to add everything else. I picked up a koolflow water pump and still need to get a T-stat so what temp is suggested? I'm thinking about an MSD distributor maybe HEI? Thoughts?


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#2
The original rope style seals used a pin to keep them in position and to keep them from rotating. Just make sure the pin was removed from the rear main bearing cap before he installed the split-lip type seal. I believe this is one reason why people have problems with the rear main seal leaking on stroked or rebuilt engines. When the block is machined for a one-piece rear main seal it is removed by the milling.

I would go with a 192° thermostat.

DuraSpark 2 for the ignition.



“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
--Albert Einstein
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#3
Looks and sounds like a nice build. A duraspark will work well. But I am running an msd set up with billets distributor and 6al. A 750 carb on that size engine seems a bit small to me but I’m no expert. My 408 is running a 850 or 900 cfm quick fuel carb.

Kevin

1971 Mach 1
408C Stroker
C4 w/3,000 stall
8.8" Rear w/3.73's
Disc brakes all way around.

[Image: 28ivsix.png]




                                                                                             
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#4
(03-17-2019, 07:06 PM)turtle5353 Wrote: Looks and sounds like a nice build. A duraspark will work well. But I am running an msd set up with billets distributor and 6al. A 750 carb on that size engine seems a bit small to me but I’m no expert. My 408 is running a 850 or 900 cfm  quick fuel carb.

That's concerning. I still need a fuel pump also. Can I get away with a High Volume Mechanical Fuel Pump or do I need to do an in tank system? I really hope I can get away with the 750 for a street car. How bad would be? I dont want to undercarb it.
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#5
I am running a stock style fuel pump. Nothing fancy and I have never had my car starve for fuel. The 750 should be fine as long as it’s jetted properly. I’m sure others will chime in about carb also.

Kevin

1971 Mach 1
408C Stroker
C4 w/3,000 stall
8.8" Rear w/3.73's
Disc brakes all way around.

[Image: 28ivsix.png]




                                                                                             
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#6
Although you won't realize your full power potential the 750 will have better street manners than a larger carburetor.

A good mechanical fuel pump will supply your carburetor. You won't need an in-tank pump unless/until you add a fuel injection system. Even then you won't need an in-tank pump if you use a surge tank.

If you do want an electric fuel pump an in-line pump will do just fine.

Even though your rebuilder is mostly a Chevy guy it sounds like he did his homework. The cam choice sounds like a good one. The machine he used to check the compression is a Whistler
https://store.katechengines.com/mobile/w...-p174.aspx

Do you know if he installed hardened valve seats?

What transmission and rear end ratio will you be running?



“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
--Albert Einstein
  Reply
#7
(03-17-2019, 09:14 PM)Don C Wrote: Although you won't realize your full power potential the 750 will have better street manners than a larger carburetor.

A good mechanical fuel pump will supply your carburetor. You won't need an in-tank pump unless/until you add a fuel injection system. Even then you won't need an in-tank pump if you use a surge tank.

If you do want an electric fuel pump an in-line pump will do just fine.

Even though your rebuilder is mostly a Chevy guy it sounds like he did his homework. The cam choice sounds like a good one. The machine he used to check the compression is a Whistler
https://store.katechengines.com/mobile/w...-p174.aspx

Do you know if he installed hardened valve seats?

What transmission and rear end ratio will you be running?
Looking at the build sheet he used Viton valve seats. That's all it says. He did do a lot of work to the heads. He said with him opening them up he went through and through them. I'm sure most wouldn't of put the time and money into open chamber heads but I'm good with it.

The trans is a TKO 600 with a .82 5th gear and the rear is 3.89's looking at a 28" tall tire.
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#8
(03-17-2019, 09:38 PM)73\ mach 1 Wrote:
(03-17-2019, 09:14 PM)Don C Wrote: Although you won't realize your full power potential the 750 will have better street manners than a larger carburetor.

A good mechanical fuel pump will supply your carburetor. You won't need an in-tank pump unless/until you add a fuel injection system. Even then you won't need an in-tank pump if you use a surge tank.

If you do want an electric fuel pump an in-line pump will do just fine.

Even though your rebuilder is mostly a Chevy guy it sounds like he did his homework. The cam choice sounds like a good one. The machine he used to check the compression is a Whistler
https://store.katechengines.com/mobile/w...-p174.aspx

Do you know if he installed hardened valve seats?

What transmission and rear end ratio will you be running?
Looking at the build sheet he used Viton valve seats. That's all it says. He did do a lot of work to the heads. He said with him opening them up he went through and through them. I'm sure most wouldn't of put the time and money into open chamber heads but I'm good with it.

The trans is a TKO 600 with a .82 5th gear and the rear is 3.89's looking at a 28" tall tire.

Forgot the add that the cam is a 112 LSA
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#9
Here is the top of the line mechanical fuel pump, I am running 2 of them in different 351C cars.
https://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/ford550.html
[+] 2 users Like Canted 393's post
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#10
Viton would be the valve stem seals, which are positive seals, instead of the umbrellas.

When you said that he opened up the valves to the larger sizes I'm assuming you have the small valve CJ 4V open chamber heads. I'm guessing that when he did that he installed the hardened seats, as he would have had to machine them, anyway.

There's nothing wrong with the open chamber heads, especially with a stroker. If you had the closed chamber heads you would have had to use dished pistons to get the compression ratio down to a controllable level, which would result in the loss of some of the quench effect of the closed chamber heads. He likely used flat top pistons with your heads. With 10:1 CR and your cam your dynamic compression ratio will be low enough that you shouldn't have any pinging problems.

Your transmission and rear end should give you an enjoyable ride. You certainly won't have any problem smoking the tires.



“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
--Albert Einstein
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