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Help, New KYB shocks continued
#1
Will e.
Mike, here are the pictures you requested. Found I had a bit of time today, so hope this helps.
Haven't found out how to add captions to pictures yet Huh so I'll try to explain as I go.
Picture #1- Top cap and rubber removed, as it sits on the ground.
Picture #2 - Nut removed showing I guess, compressed height.
Picture #3 - 1" compression?!
Picture #4 - This is to show the 3/8" washer used between the cap and rubber. Used top and bottom to make up for too short threads.
Picture #5 - Approx 6.5" from top of shock body to top of uncompressed rod.
Picture #6 - With the car jacked till tire just off the ground. 35 3/8" fender to ground, 26 3/8" fender to ground normal height.
Lowering the car a bit, this is where you'll need to start attaching the caps and rubbers and nuts. I needed to tighten the bottom nut all the way till it stops, then back off 1/2 turn, then add the jamb nut.
I think all this means I have about 1" of compressed height or rebound. Seems to be enough, but maybe more research will yield a better shock for standard front suspension.
EDIT: I should have measured the wheel arch fender height after the shock was reinstalled to show the difference. That height was 29 7/8" with the wheel just off the ground as before. That equals 3 1/2" travel (I think!!) 29 7/8" - 26 3/8" = 3 1/2".
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#2
Now my curiosity is getting the better of me. Are KYB kg4504 shocks really a suitable for a stock suspension Mustang? Is there a shock with more rebound. Mike's YouTube video opens the door for questions. These shocks are widely sold by most of the Mustang parts vendors, but now I have more questions than answers. They are good and do seem to perform well under "normal" driving, but????
I've added a of pictures of the shock and spring, showing that the upward travel really hits the bump stops and the static distance between the upper arm and the bump stop.
Comments ?
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#3
Thanks for posting up.
So your number 3 picture would indicate to me that you have 1" of available extension on the shock itself. A bit more over all extension because the rubber bushing will compress. And 3 1/2" of wheel travel makes sense because the spindle is further out.

It does appear that your stops are being used on occasion. The stop will compress some as well. Next step is to measure the distance between the perch and stop at rest. Maximum compression required from the shock will be less.


Using your extension measurement I probably only have about 2 or so inches of extension for the wheel. My picture number 3 would show about 1/2" of travel for the shock.

But I am beginning to wonder if the kg4504 is the best shock. Here is it pictured next to the other kyb recommend shock:

[Image: P1030461_zpsucrefepo.jpg]

The shock on the left: Number 343516 extends to 13.9 and compresses to 8.9 and provides 4 inches of overall travel
The shock on the right: Number KG4504 extends to 12.32 and compresses to 8.5 and provides 3.82 inches of overall travel (This does appear to be closer to your OEM shocks)

The KYB shock not pictured KG4505 is closer to their 343516 shock with 13.5 extended, compresses to 9.09 and provides 4.41 inches of overall travel.

Gabriel 81491: extended 13, compressed 8.74
Monroe 5823: Extended: 12.625, compressed 8.625

I couldn't find any other brand name examples. But the kg4504 has the shortest expanded length.

'Mike'
73 Convertible - 351C/4V CC heads/4bolt/forged flat tops/comp 270/rhodes/mallory unilite/tri-power/hookers/glasspacks/c6/3.50 limited slip/Gear Vendors/Global West sub frames, strut rods and shelby style traction bars/ Rear sway bar/tilt steering (not original)

Pics of modifications included in:
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#4
will e;285763 Wrote:Thanks for posting up.
So your number 3 picture would indicate to me that you have 1" of available extension on the shock itself. A bit more over all extension because the rubber bushing will compress. And 3 1/2" of wheel travel makes sense because the spindle is further out.

It does appear that your stops are being used on occasion. The stop will compress some as well. Next step is to measure the distance between the perch and stop at rest. Maximum compression required from the shock will be less.


Using your extension measurement I probably only have about 2 or so inches of extension for the wheel. My picture number 3 would show about 1/2" of travel for the shock.

But I am beginning to wonder if the kg4504 is the best shock. Here is it pictured next to the other kyb recommend shock:

The shock on the left: Number 343516 extends to 13.9 and compresses to 8.9 and provides 4 inches of overall travel
The shock on the right: Number KG4504 extends to 12.32 and compresses to 8.5 and provides 3.82 inches of overall travel (This does appear to be closer to your OEM shocks)

The KYB shock not pictured KG4505 is closer to their 343516 shock with 13.5 extended, compresses to 9.09 and provides 4.41 inches of overall travel.

Gabriel 81491: extended 13, compressed 8.74
Monroe 5823: Extended: 12.625, compressed 8.625

I couldn't find any other brand name examples. But the kg4504 has the shortest expansion length.

I am starting to think along the same lines as you, but why the difference between your set-up and mine if the suspension is stock?
I might look at the other KYB shock you show, that way it should still match with the KYB rear shocks, all of which are new this year, but I'll change them if it means improving my cornering capabilities. I'm NOT a straight line driver!!
The other limiting factor is springs. They can only compress so far before they bind, especially with factory springs. As mentioned before, the springs sold with the Scott Drake front end kit I bought, were 2" taller, thinner wire gauge and therefore more distance between coils. However, they sat the ride height 2" higher as well, not cool!. "Oh! they'll settle" I was told, but when and by how much. Even if they did settle to the desired height, there would only be marginal difference between coils compared to factory. I went back to factory springs.
So far, no-one else has chimed in with a solution, but that's ok.
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#5
will e;285763 Wrote:It does appear that your stops are being used on occasion. The stop will compress some as well. Next step is to measure the distance between the perch and stop at rest. Maximum compression required from the shock will be less.

I was able to get a very rough measurement for the spring perch to the bump stop. I can't lift the car, so I had to squeeze myself under the rocker to get to it. As best I can guestimate, it is about 3 1/2" as well.
This is the best I can do until I get my PS box back and fitted as I don't want to lose my center positioning.
I think what we're seeing on my car is about 3 1/2" of upward travel, 4 if you include the amount the bump on the A arm deforms the rubber stop block and about 1" of downward travel with my original height springs.
More later I guess????
Geoff.
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#6
I took the tire off after jacking the car up on the lower control arm. I measured 3 1/4" from the A arm to the bump stop. I would guess that jacking it up caused some compression, I will try again with the tire on and the wheel turned.

'Mike'
73 Convertible - 351C/4V CC heads/4bolt/forged flat tops/comp 270/rhodes/mallory unilite/tri-power/hookers/glasspacks/c6/3.50 limited slip/Gear Vendors/Global West sub frames, strut rods and shelby style traction bars/ Rear sway bar/tilt steering (not original)

Pics of modifications included in:
  Reply
#7
will e;285984 Wrote:I took the tire off after jacking the car up on the lower control arm. I measured 3 1/4" from the A arm to the bump stop. I would guess that jacking it up caused some compression, I will try again with the tire on and the wheel turned.

Looks like we have about the same then. If the measurements are all about the same with the stock suspension, if you think about it, a shock with a longer travel, will see the shock's piston in relatively the same place at rest, but the up stroke would be longer?? This would allow more downward pressure on the wheels over bumps or hard cornering. Is my thinking right after watching the video??
However, it would get to a point where the overall length of the shock would be a major factor.
This is getting interesting. I'm surprised others have not chimed in if our thinking is getting off track.
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#8
According to the 1973 Mustang Fact Book in the WIKI section of the forum, the 73 front suspension was "improved" to provide additional travel, including a "longer" shock?? I just purchased a complete new front suspension for my 73 convertible and included 1" lowering springs and KYB 4504 shocks. Now I'm concerned that the 4504 may be the wrong shock for a 73, which according to the fact book, may be a one-off size specific to this year. Has this fitment issue been resolved or do I need to find a different shock??
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