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Head Removal
#1
Should I be nervous about a mistake I made removing one of my 4V heads? I forgot to follow the procedures of alternating bolts on the head during removal. The manual describes the order to take bolts off. What can happen warpage?

I also forgot to mark my bolts on one side. How critical is that step. It means I will be placing the bolts in different locations when I reinstall the head. Should I purchase new bolts to be safe or is this procedure just super anal?

Chasing Rust
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#2
You should be fine.

More important is having spotlessly clean bolts and chased (cleaned) bolt holes on reassembly.

Pete - MotoArts Decals and Signs
'71 Sportsroof 351C-4V/4-speed - FINALLY under construction - no, wait, on hold again...
'90 Mustang 7-Up 5.0 ragtop, rolling beater
'66 Sunbeam Tiger Mk.IA, survivor
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#3
Darren 72;105302 Wrote:Should I purchase new bolts to be safe or is this procedure just super anal?

Wouldn't it be nice if instructions indicated "For the super anal, remove bolts in the following order"?

Just a shot in the dark, but perhaps this would be an issue if you are going to re-use the head gaskets. Removing the bolts in the "proper" fashion might assure the head gasket is not warped for the install.

However, I think it is good practice to least put the bolts back in the same holes. Only because it makes installation easier(especially the silly water pump bolts...ugh.). And with a white out pen, it is usually pretty easy to accomplish.

Now, don't use the a*** word again. It is hard enough to stay on this forum as it is.

[Image: 11jmcuc.png]
351C Bold Manners, Brash Attitude
Favorite Teams: Michigan Wolverines and Whoever Is Playing Ohio State.

When I drive past a herd of cows, the cows MOO at me
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#4
I don't know c***, but being super a***, I would replace any bolts that have a torque specification, because some bolts get their threads stretched when you torque them. Head bolts are cheap enough, and I'm super a***, so why not?

P.S. anyone that knows me, knows I'm NOT a***, let alone super a***.

Steve



[Image: 25yvyp3.jpg]
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#5
The heads are ruined, junk, not even good for recycling the metal. Send them to me and I will dispose of them in the correct way by installing them on my car.

You probably ruined the trans and the rear end (if it is a locker) so I will send you a list of all the parts that I need - oops - I mean that are no longer any good.......

When you put them back on always use new head bolts and follow the pattern and torque steps as instructed.

Always use new head, rod, rod cap, intake, and oil pump to block bolts when going back together. The rest are OK to use over again and again and again.

- Paul
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#6
The reason they tell you to loosen in a certain order us so it doesn't warp the head. You will want to use a straight edge (its a tool, not a ruler) and feeler gauges to ensure no warpage occurred. To correctly measure, the straight edge needs to be placed lengthwise across the top middle and bottom if the deck side of the head and then diagonally both ways. There is a proper spec(each car is different) for the clearances. Use feeler gauges to ensure the correct spec
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#7
sm3570;105324 Wrote:I don't know c***, but being super a***, I would replace any bolts that have a torque specification, because some bolts get their threads stretched when you torque them. Head bolts are cheap enough, and I'm super a***, so why not?

P.S. anyone that knows me, knows I'm NOT a***, let alone super a***.
First, regarding head warpage, I agree with the Toolman(sorry Toolman). Measure the warpage. Check your block. Can't hurt.

Warning- Soap Box. Not meant to be critical, just vent.

To be clear, I think most would agree every bolt on a motor has a torque specification, even the valve cover and oil pan bolts. But you certainly don't need to replace those every time you loosen or tighten them.

Also, when I plastiguage my crank and rod bearings/journals(another subject), I certainly am not going to put on a new set of bolts between inspections. And, although I don't have my torque table in front of me, I think the torque values are at 105ft.lbs. +/-10. I don't think those torque values are going to hurt those bolts.

For what it is worth, here is an ASE web page:

http://www.freeasestudyguides.com/a1_4.html

However, they do not mention(or I missed it) you need to do a very good visual inspection of the bolts. On my first motor, 150K mile Windsor, a couple of bolts were a little rusty from a tiny head gasket leak. The fact this may be an issue may make a head bolt purchase a wise decision. (To extend this post, but to be clear, the motor was rebuilt at 140k by a "reputable" builder, and they reused the obviously rusty head bolts. Thank you Orange Engine)

And regarding a***, I am just tired of throwing money away because it "seems" like the right thing to do. Money on head bolts, main bolts, rod bolts, intake manifold bolts, water pump bolts, fuel pump bolts...there is real change there. $150-$200? Not to mention the time to find them, order them, store them...lose them, find them. ugh.

And, everyone here has had a bad aftermarket part experience. Does anyone really believe the words "BOLT ON" mean bolt on? And, now we are actually talking about THE BOLTS. (By the way, does anyone besides me wonder why no one makes an engine mount bolt? If these aftermarket guys are so good at making bolts, where are the long engine mount bolts?)

All this being said, do I reuse my head bolts. No. Can I justify it? No...well not the UNrusty bolts. If I had $10M bank I would test NEW bolts versus OEM bolts just for fun. But until then, I buy into the propaganda. But I am looking forward to the day when I can be pointed to something other than propaganda.

[Image: 11jmcuc.png]
351C Bold Manners, Brash Attitude
Favorite Teams: Michigan Wolverines and Whoever Is Playing Ohio State.

When I drive past a herd of cows, the cows MOO at me
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#8
All bolts have a torque "spec". Any bolt that is torqued to the spec of the bolt needs to be replaced. It is that simple. Can you get away with it. Sure. You can also get away some times with using a lower grade bolt. That's not to say it won't break down the line. Bolts are cheap and replacing them is good insurance. As for plasti gauge. I always use my old bolts for that type of thing and only install the new ones on the build. Do you also reuse the nuts on the connecting rods?

[Image: 2rr7aiv.png]

Just cruising along minding our own business when BAM!!! The LAWS show up.
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#9
I don't know about the Cleveland(because I haven't looked it up yet) but my ford manuals for my Windsor says to reuse the head bolts. I've had this argument allot though. I think its because chebby uses torque to yield and everyone rebuilds those so they go off that experience when doing Ford.
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#10
When it comes to bolts, there is usually a spec that lets you know when to replace them, especially when it comes to head bolts. They do stretch when torqued, and the manufacturer of the engine, ie Ford, Chevy, etc. specifies at which point they should be replaced. I don't see wasting money on head bolts or any other bolts for that matter when they are still within spec. If they are rusty, yeah I probly would replace them. Now there is something called a torque to yield bolt, and that is a different matter all together. They need to be replaced every time. However, those didn't start appearing till the early to mid 90s. Just my two cents as a mechanic:-)
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