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frame rust ---plz Help
#1
Hey guys, i need help to fix my frame n apron. How can I weld or fix the shock tower apron rust (on bottom see images), & fix top portion of frame that is right below the upper control Arm? Frame is fine all around except top. I don't wanna replace the s.tower apron because then I'd have to pull out the motor. Anyone else experience the same problem? Is it true that you can't weld on rust surface? Can I just weld the apron to the frame,then weld a thick piece of metal to the missing part of the frame which would secure both apron & frame? I don't know how to weld, just throwing ideas. Plz see images for ref.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks.


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#2
I would get it all cleaned up first - looks like a lot of gunk with dirt caked on.

It might not be as bad as you think.

Eric

[Image: mach1sig2.gif]
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#3
sharpstang72;26579 Wrote:Hey guys, i need help to fix my frame n apron. How can I weld or fix the shock tower apron rust (on bottom see images), & fix top portion of frame that is right below the upper control Arm? Frame is fine all around except top. I don't wanna replace the s.tower apron because then I'd have to pull out the motor. Anyone else experience the same problem? Is it true that you can't weld on rust surface? Can I just weld the apron to the frame,then weld a thick piece of metal to the missing part of the frame which would secure both apron & frame? I don't know how to weld, just throwing ideas. Plz see images for ref.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks.
SS
look here i did the same repair using a section of the frame i got when i bought my towers..you can buy the inner frame rail section just cut out what you need & section it in..YOU CAN NOT WELD ON RUSTED METAL
http://s1136.photobucket.com/albums/n499/FUZZENUT/


LOVE OF BEAUTY IS TASTE..THE CREATION OF BEAUTY IS ART
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#4
I have the tower and rail if you need it.
Clean it up more to find any and all rot.
If it is just the top of the rail, a section of flat stock can be welded in.
Don

Ohio Mustang Supply
440-949-2556

[Image: oms_sig_banner.jpg]
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#5
OMS;26583 Wrote:I have the tower and rail if you need it.
Clean it up more to find any and all rot.
If it is just the top of the rail, a section of flat stock can be welded in.
Don
Don that's a structural area..you need to specify flat stock of the same thickness as the frame rail..Flat stock to some people is a piece of a coffee can whistling

LOVE OF BEAUTY IS TASTE..THE CREATION OF BEAUTY IS ART
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#6
ok, deep breath.

I went through this in 2007 on my car similar damage.

here are some of the pictures from the repair.

http://s1031.photobucket.com/albums/y377...1QQtppZZ20


lets discuss:

The rust you don't see is 100 times worse then the rust you see.

That area under the shock towers is a Nexus between the engine support and suspension support, its also a major structural point.

The truth is based on the photos above, the shock tower is toast, you can see its completely rotted across the rail.
because i can see through so much of that tower most likely the engine cradle is toast which is also the lower suspension arm mount. these parts are not reproduced. so your looking at minimal new shock tower and engine cradle(lower suspension mount). now your talking alignment of the vehicle and getting into a complex repair that requires more skill then just putting in new floor pans or patching quarters.

here is where i will disagree with OMS, based on the damage i see in photos and my experience you do not have enough good metal for a simple top patch, it needs to be determined if there is enough thick steel left on the Rail sides to even warrant repair or replacement. To go through the process of determining the extent of the damage.

1) the engine needs to come out, you need full access to the back side of the shock tower with the engine out of the way, Exhuast manifolds Cover a lot of damage.

2) things need to start getting cut out of the way, right down to the rail itself to see how badly thinned the metal is.

once at that point if more then half of the rail box in that area is good then you can sheet steel the rail and rebuild it.
if just the bottom of the rail turns out to be solid then your looking at a complete front clip if both sides are just as bad.

on my car i was VERY close to needed a full front clip. the only reason i didn't was because i found shock towers and an engine cradle right away and had the engine aprons. if i had nothing then i would of gotten a donor car.

now something this important was beyond me so i hired a frame/welder to do the work.

the problem is things spiral out of control very fast once you start ripping into one area the problems in another area become apparent.

on my car i had to rebuild the front clip all the way to the A pillars including the cowl.

cost of materials and labor was just over 5000$ then there was extras on top of that.

car took about 5 months to complete the repair since the guy was busy and worked 20 hours at a time on it.
so i could make payments on his labor.


my car required:

new towers (required additional repair to fix replacements)
new engine cradle(required addition repair to fix replacement)
new engine aprons X4
new rad support
new cowl to engine bay aprons(required additional repair to fix replacements)
patches to drivers and passenger rails.
patches to fire wall.
hand fabrication of cowl area.
hand fabrication of missing and or rusted away panels not included with reproduction panels.

once the welding work was completed he primed and painted the area to prevent rust from forming again.

I then re-striped the area for additional work, striped the firewall and cowl area down to the rockers.
removed undercoating, then reprimed and finish coated the engine bay.


i'll stop here since there are tons of details, look at the photos in my link first I have more of the original damage before the repair started so you can compare.

I will say this: damage to 71-73 cars in that area is common and usually the Death nail for the car. if you are going to resell the vehicle for profit, then get out of it now. If you really do want to fix the damage like i did it will cost a lot to bring it back, and isn't a simple repair.

i'll check back on this thread later.

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#7
Hello there!! Well... Guys are saying you have to do major work over there and maybe they are right but why dont you start ny hydrowash the hole area until you see only metal?

Then you can take 100 pics to show every angle of the problem, inside and out to let us think a way to fix it in the budget you can spend...

I understand not wanting to take the engine off but you will need access from both sides so, suspension and steeeing are going to be off for sure...

I really cant tell by your pics how bad is the damage but you have to think you are going to cut the rust sheet off at least an Inch over the actual hole, to be able to weld the new patch propperly...

Danny told this is a very important structural area, more if the rail is too compromised... Then check for alignment well... You dont want to patch in a wrong position...

After doing the clean up and lots of pics, maybe someone of us can come with a creative idea to do the Job...




Damián Cool

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Vote For 7173Mustangs.Com Every Day!
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#8
Ok, I'll admit it I still don't have my car at my place so I can start in on it...AND I know nothing about cars BUT. If there is major repair work to fix the problems like 72HCode had, wouldn't it be just as easy to put in a Rod and Custom Motorsport Mustang II front end kit? The kit cost is about $2500 and would seem to make the car safer and maybe handle better in the long haul.
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#9
72HCODE;26588 Wrote:ok, deep breath.

I went through this in 2007 on my car similar damage.

here are some of the pictures from the repair.

http://s1031.photobucket.com/albums/y377...1QQtppZZ20


lets discuss:

The rust you don't see is 100 times worse then the rust you see.

That area under the shock towers is a Nexus between the engine support and suspension support, its also a major structural point.

The truth is based on the photos above, the shock tower is toast, you can see its completely rotted across the rail.
because i can see through so much of that tower most likely the engine cradle is toast which is also the lower suspension arm mount. these parts are not reproduced. so your looking at minimal new shock tower and engine cradle(lower suspension mount). now your talking alignment of the vehicle and getting into a complex repair that requires more skill then just putting in new floor pans or patching quarters.

here is where i will disagree with OMS, based on the damage i see in photos and my experience you do not have enough good metal for a simple top patch, it needs to be determined if there is enough thick steel left on the Rail sides to even warrant repair or replacement. To go through the process of determining the extent of the damage.

1) the engine needs to come out, you need full access to the back side of the shock tower with the engine out of the way, Exhuast manifolds Cover a lot of damage.

2) things need to start getting cut out of the way, right down to the rail itself to see how badly thinned the metal is.

once at that point if more then half of the rail box in that area is good then you can sheet steel the rail and rebuild it.
if just the bottom of the rail turns out to be solid then your looking at a complete front clip if both sides are just as bad.

on my car i was VERY close to needed a full front clip. the only reason i didn't was because i found shock towers and an engine cradle right away and had the engine aprons. if i had nothing then i would of gotten a donor car.

now something this important was beyond me so i hired a frame/welder to do the work.

the problem is things spiral out of control very fast once you start ripping into one area the problems in another area become apparent.

on my car i had to rebuild the front clip all the way to the A pillars including the cowl.

cost of materials and labor was just over 5000$ then there was extras on top of that.

car took about 5 months to complete the repair since the guy was busy and worked 20 hours at a time on it.
so i could make payments on his labor.


my car required:

new towers (required additional repair to fix replacements)
new engine cradle(required addition repair to fix replacement)
new engine aprons X4
new rad support
new cowl to engine bay aprons(required additional repair to fix replacements)
patches to drivers and passenger rails.
patches to fire wall.
hand fabrication of cowl area.
hand fabrication of missing and or rusted away panels not included with reproduction panels.

once the welding work was completed he primed and painted the area to prevent rust from forming again.

I then re-striped the area for additional work, striped the firewall and cowl area down to the rockers.
removed undercoating, then reprimed and finish coated the engine bay.


i'll stop here since there are tons of details, look at the photos in my link first I have more of the original damage before the repair started so you can compare.

I will say this: damage to 71-73 cars in that area is common and usually the Death nail for the car. if you are going to resell the vehicle for profit, then get out of it now. If you really do want to fix the damage like i did it will cost a lot to bring it back, and isn't a simple repair.

i'll check back on this thread later.
Ditto..I did the same repair But you got lucky 72..I had to replace the entire left frame rail...On the plus side i have the know how & skills to perform this type work..So i was able to do it in record time plus do it right..as you have all seen. For someone who has to pay for this type of work it's a costly repair period & time consuming since most shops are working on other cars besides yours. There are other options as stated mustang 2 frt clip but to be honest I would put my stock repaired coil over conversion frt susp up against a mustang 2 susp any day of the week & put it to shame ! front rails are available & any competent fabricator could easily box out a shock tower with the same mounting points as stock..again plenty of options just a matter of your skill & how deep your pockets are. Cool


GreenGold73;26601 Wrote:Ok, I'll admit it I still don't have my car at my place so I can start in on it...AND I know nothing about cars BUT. If there is major repair work to fix the problems like 72HCode had, wouldn't it be just as easy to put in a Rod and Custom Motorsport Mustang II front end kit? The kit cost is about $2500 and would seem to make the car safer and maybe handle better in the long haul.
Maybe? 2500.00 for the kit $5000.00 for the install..then you need to fabricate all the mounting points for the frt end sheet metal $3000.00 then all the other incidentals you need. no mater how you slice the pie by the time your done with a frt clip repair/replacement your looking 10 large at least to do it right/safe not a hack job.


LOVE OF BEAUTY IS TASTE..THE CREATION OF BEAUTY IS ART
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#10
When I looked into front end options even with the rust I had it was cheaper to go back to original rather then install 3rd party suspensions. It effects everything on the front end, you end up having steering changes and modifications, steering box changes, linkage changes, etc.

70,71-73 front ends are very good, all those suspension kits and strut rod kits were designed to retrofit the older mustangs that had alot of issues with the front suspensions and alignments. As the shock towers leaned in from age.



OP , Start simple first is the damage on the drivers side the same as the passenger side?
I see you have started replacing at least the battery apron in the photos.

What is the condition around the bottom of the rad support?

If you can get under the car look at the inner lower shock towers on both sides, look for cracking in addition to the rust damage. Get a screw driver through the top of the open rail and start poking if you go through the inner wall of the rail then you know more,

The problem is once the top of the rail rusts out all the junk that was there absorbing water falls in and sits on the bottom of the rail and rots it out through the bottom, the seams in that area all hold water and the rail sides thin out. If the outer rail and bottom and inner rail half way up is solid then you can think about a patch, if the inner rail wall is thin, then its a matter of looking for the same damage on the other side.

If you have to patch the driver and need a replacement rail for the passenger then it makes sense to go for a complete front clip, if the other side is solid and it's just one side of the car then you can go for patch or rail placement and work back to a complete car with replacement panels.
My repair was beyond my scope of skills had I not found the welder I used for the job I would of junked my car and looked for a better one to start with again.
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