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Flywheel size?? How many teeth?
#1
Hey guys, do any of you know offhand how many teeth are on a flywheel from a 3 speed manual??   Trying to look up some flywheels and They are showing 3 different ones for our years??  157 tooth 164 tooth and 184 tooth.    I have seen 157 and 164 but never 184!!  I know I can count the teeth when I get home  but just wanted to try to find one today while im at work.  This car is a 71 351C 2v with 3 speed manual. Im leaning towards it being 164.

And so far far they are EXPENSIVE!!   Over $300.   Have any of you guys ever changed the ring gear on one?? They sell the ring gear separate but I have never replaced one.
Or clean up the teeth with a file and run it??? The car was starting fine, no noises from the starter and the starter teeth all look good. Could of been bad starter years ago that caused the damage.


[Image: 740-B5-DF6-CE14-461-C-8-C24-753-FB5221796.jpg]

[Image: 57841-F1-F-B644-4-D81-B9-B3-BFBB93-B8450-E.jpg]

[Image: 16371936-EE7-B-4-B4-C-B57-B-B330-B3-F09-F2-F.jpg]

Kevin

1971 Mach 1
408C Stroker
C4 w/3,000 stall
8.8" Rear w/3.73's
Disc brakes all way around.

[Image: 28ivsix.png]




                                                                                             
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#2
Should be  164 on a manual trans flywheel. The flywheel will also need to be re-ground (surfaced) before installing the new clutch, but you already know that I'm sure.
The rings are heat sweated on. An engine shop should be able to do that for you. If the flywheel is too thin below spec, I would replace it anyway.

A 71 351C with a THREE speed?! I wasn't aware they put the 3 speed behind a 351. I learn something new every day!!

I learn something new every day!
  Reply
#3
So, I just looked at the Tag book and sure enough the 351C 2V lists a 3.03 3 speed for the 2V only. 4V all got 4 speeds. The box tag would be RAT-BB1,BB2, BZ
Interesting.
I think I'd junk that box and at least drop in a 4 speed, a 5 would be even better.

I learn something new every day!
  Reply
#4
(02-12-2019, 09:32 AM)Stanglover Wrote: So, I just looked at the Tag book and sure enough the 351C 2V lists a 3.03 3 speed for the 2V only. 4V all got 4 speeds. The box tag would be RAT-BB1,BB2, BZ
Interesting.
I think I'd junk that box and at least drop in a 4 speed, a 5 would be even better.

From his marti report, I believe there were less than 1500 with 351 and 3 speeds made.  If it was my car it would have a 5 or 6 speed. But for him its not in the budget at this time.....maybe next winter lol!!

Kevin

1971 Mach 1
408C Stroker
C4 w/3,000 stall
8.8" Rear w/3.73's
Disc brakes all way around.

[Image: 28ivsix.png]




                                                                                             
  Reply
#5
(02-12-2019, 09:40 AM)turtle5353 Wrote:
(02-12-2019, 09:32 AM)Stanglover Wrote: So, I just looked at the Tag book and sure enough the 351C 2V lists a 3.03 3 speed for the 2V only. 4V all got 4 speeds. The box tag would be RAT-BB1,BB2, BZ
Interesting.
I think I'd junk that box and at least drop in a 4 speed, a 5 would be even better.

From his marti report, I believe there were less than 1500 with 351 and 3 speeds made.  If it was my car it would have a 5 or 6 speed. But for him its not in the budget at this time.....maybe next winter lol!!

 One more thought, I take it the clutch is an 11" dia.?  Again, there may be differences as this is a 3 speed car. I guess you'll need to check everything before buying anything.
The car is going to look great once it's all back together. For me, it's all in the details, but that's just me, anal!
Geoff.

I learn something new every day!
  Reply
#6
(02-12-2019, 09:06 AM)turtle5353 Wrote: Hey guys, do any of you know offhand how many teeth are on a flywheel from a 3 speed manual??   Trying to look up some flywheels and They are showing 3 different ones for our years??  157 tooth 164 tooth and 184 tooth.    I have seen 157 and 164 but never 184!!  I know I can count the teeth when I get home  but just wanted to try to find one today while im at work.  This car is a 71 351C 2v with 3 speed manual. Im leaning towards it being 164.

And so far far they are EXPENSIVE!!   Over $300.   Have any of you guys ever changed the ring gear on one?? They sell the ring gear separate but I have never replaced one.
Or clean up the teeth with a file and run it???  The car was starting fine, no noises from the starter and the starter teeth all look good. Could of been bad starter years ago that caused the damage.  

351s all took the 164 tooth flywheel with an 11" clutch.  

Rockauto shows the ring gear as Pioneer FRG164N 

157th was the 250-6, 184 for 69-70 428 cars and 176 would be for the 429

Removal and installation are easy if you have an acetylene torch. You can simply drive the old ring gear off with a punch hitting from the clutch side. Just work your way around it evenly and it'll come right off. For installation, put the new ring gear on a couple bricks or similar to lift it off the floor. Use the torch to warm the ring gear and it'll expand - don't go crazy or you'll ruin the temper. Use a couple pairs of pliers to lift it up and drop it onto the flywheel. Let it cool and give it a few whacks with a punch from the starter side all around to ensure it's seated. 


I do agree with Stanglover - have him save his pennies for a Toploader w/Hurst shifter - it'll make it so much more enjoyable to drive. It's simply a speedo cable & speedo gear swap away.


  Reply
#7
(02-12-2019, 12:54 PM)Hemikiller Wrote:
(02-12-2019, 09:06 AM)turtle5353 Wrote: Hey guys, do any of you know offhand how many teeth are on a flywheel from a 3 speed manual??   Trying to look up some flywheels and They are showing 3 different ones for our years??  157 tooth 164 tooth and 184 tooth.    I have seen 157 and 164 but never 184!!  I know I can count the teeth when I get home  but just wanted to try to find one today while im at work.  This car is a 71 351C 2v with 3 speed manual. Im leaning towards it being 164.

And so far far they are EXPENSIVE!!   Over $300.   Have any of you guys ever changed the ring gear on one?? They sell the ring gear separate but I have never replaced one.
Or clean up the teeth with a file and run it???  The car was starting fine, no noises from the starter and the starter teeth all look good. Could of been bad starter years ago that caused the damage.  

351s all took the 164 tooth flywheel with an 11" clutch.  

Rockauto shows the ring gear as Pioneer FRG164N 

157th was the 250-6, 184 for 69-70 428 cars and 176 would be for the 429

Removal and installation are easy if you have an acetylene torch. You can simply drive the old ring gear off with a punch hitting from the clutch side. Just work your way around it evenly and it'll come right off. For installation, put the new ring gear on a couple bricks or similar to lift it off the floor. Use the torch to warm the ring gear and it'll expand - don't go crazy or you'll ruin the temper. Use a couple pairs of pliers to lift it up and drop it onto the flywheel. Let it cool and give it a few whacks with a punch from the starter side all around to ensure it's seated. 


I do agree with Stanglover - have him save his pennies for a Toploader w/Hurst shifter - it'll make it so much more enjoyable to drive. It's simply a speedo cable & speedo gear swap away.

Thanks for the input.  Doesn't seem to hard to swap the ring gear. About the same as sweating a bearing on a shaft.  And the gear is only around $20!

Kevin

1971 Mach 1
408C Stroker
C4 w/3,000 stall
8.8" Rear w/3.73's
Disc brakes all way around.

[Image: 28ivsix.png]




                                                                                             
  Reply
#8
Glad Hemikiller was able to confirm the ring gear and clutch size. It's as I thought, but not totally sure of.
Not sure if your guy would be interested, but there is a 4 speed top loader advertised on Kijiji in Ontario for $900 Cnd, nothing else, just the box. He says it has new syncros. Also I know guy who has (or had) a comp + shifter but wants 400 Cnd for that alone. Then if it needs to be rebuilt, you're looking at another 250 at Hurst Shifters Online in SC. I just got mine rebuilt there, but still waiting for it to arrive. The US dollar is strong against the Cdn $ like almost 30%, so maybe makes it a good deal. Just a thought.
Geoff.

I learn something new every day!
  Reply
#9
(02-12-2019, 09:19 AM)Stanglover Wrote: Should be  164 on a manual trans flywheel. The flywheel will also need to be re-ground (surfaced) before installing the new clutch, but you already know that I'm sure.
The rings are heat sweated on. An engine shop should be able to do that for you. If the flywheel is too thin below spec, I would replace it anyway.

A 71 351C with a THREE speed?!  I wasn't aware they put the 3 speed behind a 351. I learn something new every day!!

Geoff, Another shock for you...in 1970 the 3sp (3.03) was the standard transmission for the 351C 2bl and 4bl engines in the Mustang and Torinos! Ford sold quite a few vehicles in that configuration. The 3sp 351C (2bl only) was offered through the 72 model year and was not offered in 73. 
It used the same 11" clutch and 164 tooth flywheel as the 4bl versions.
Some of the aftermarket parts listings and applications can be a little vague. The 184 tooth was on the 428 engines while the 429 used 176 tooth flywheel.
At least with the 3sp car you are already ahead since the pedal hanger and under hood clutch linkage is already there if there is a decision do the 4sp "Thing".   Smile
  Reply
#10
(02-12-2019, 08:37 PM)secluff Wrote:
(02-12-2019, 09:19 AM)Stanglover Wrote: Should be  164 on a manual trans flywheel. The flywheel will also need to be re-ground (surfaced) before installing the new clutch, but you already know that I'm sure.
The rings are heat sweated on. An engine shop should be able to do that for you. If the flywheel is too thin below spec, I would replace it anyway.

A 71 351C with a THREE speed?!  I wasn't aware they put the 3 speed behind a 351. I learn something new every day!!

Geoff, Another shock for you...in 1970 the 3sp (3.03) was the standard transmission for the 351C 2bl and 4bl engines in the Mustang and Torinos! Ford sold quite a few vehicles in that configuration. The 3sp 351C (2bl only) was offered through the 72 model year and was not offered in 73. 
It used the same 11" clutch and 164 tooth flywheel as the 4bl versions.
Some of the aftermarket parts listings and applications can be a little vague. The 184 tooth was on the 428 engines while the 429 used 176 tooth flywheel.
At least with the 3sp car you are already ahead since the pedal hanger and under hood clutch linkage is already there if there is a decision do the 4sp "Thing".   Smile
Yep, like I said, "I learn something new every day" You're a mine of information for sure and I/we can always count on you for the correct information.
I for one, appreciate your knowledge and input.
A four speed is bad enough, without an overdrive gear and depending on the rear axle ratio, for gas mileage, but I'd drop in the 4 speed over a 3 any day. 
Thanks,
Geoff.

I learn something new every day!
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