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Engine Disassembly - what to number?
#1
Just pulling apart the 351C-2V from my '73 Mach 1. Just wondering which parts needed be kept in the correct numbered order when you're doing a full rebuild. I know it's pretty critical when just doing a partial rebuild i.e. head gasket, but is it so important when you're doing everything (at least everything that is not in vgc)?

For example, I would imagine we need to keep the tappet order the same and note the top Vs bottom, but would not have thought it would matter with the pushrods or rocker arms?

Appreciate your time on this.

(PS Sorry if there is already a thread on this - please direct me to it.)

Cheers
George

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#2
Depends on all what you are replacing. If you are reusing the rockers, pushrods, and lifters, I always keep them in order and replace in same location. I have a nice tray that's labeled just for this that holds them in their proper order. If you going into the bottom end make sure you keep your main caps in order and bearings. And keep your rod caps with their corresponding rod. I always put the pistons back in the same hole if i'm just replacing bearings and reusing rod and pistons. But if your replacing everything, just keep rod caps with rods, main caps where they came from and replace everything else.

Kevin

1971 Mach 1
408C Stroker
C4 w/3,000 stall
8.8" Rear w/3.73's
Disc brakes all way around.

[Image: 28ivsix.png]




                                                                                             
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#3
I do the same, I have 16 plastic bowls with the lids numbered and identified by intake or exhaust and all of the valve train components are sorted into each bowl. Easy then to stack the bowls on a shelf. I think I paid $10 or $12 for all of them. If the rods and caps or main bearing caps aren't numbered get a cheap metal stamp set and number them. We can get a set here for around $15 from Harbor Freight. I've also seen them numbered by using a center punch and making the appropriate number of dimples in each matching component.



“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
--Albert Einstein
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#4
I have always kept everything in order, just in case. I never know when I will actually finish something I start, so I have learned to not rely on memory unless I absolutely have to, then I take lots of pictures and notes. That way all I have to do is remember where I put the )*&^ing notes and photos...

---
Mike
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#5
[quote pid='329510' dateline='1537552371']
MikeGriese
That way all I have to do is remember where I put the )*&^ing notes and photos...
[/quote]

Or worry about my hard drive and backup drive crashing at the same time. I leave pictures in my camera and cell phone, too, until they get too full.



“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
--Albert Einstein
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#6
(09-21-2018, 06:17 AM)turtle5353 Wrote: Depends on all what you are replacing. If you are reusing the rockers, pushrods, and lifters, I always keep them in order and replace in same location. I have a nice tray that's labeled just for this that holds them in their proper order.  If you going into the bottom end make sure you keep your main caps in order and bearings. And keep your rod caps with their corresponding rod.  I always put the pistons back in the same hole if i'm just replacing bearings and reusing rod and pistons.  But if your replacing everything, just keep rod caps with rods, main caps where they came from and replace everything else.

Thanks Kevin. The problem is that I don't know what I'm going to replace until I inspect it. I get that I could just number everything, but my mind is always looking at the Why? I guess it's also about understanding each part more intimately in terms of what it does and how it works. For example, as I look at rocker arms, pushrods and springs I can't see how any differences aren't just taken up by the hydraulic lifters - isn't that why they're hydraulic? 

Whereas, the lifters and pistons and bearings all have matching faces that they have worn into which makes sense of why you need to number them. 

Also, is there any parts that are likely to rust if the engine sits in pieces for a couple of months that need to be stored a special way. I know they're hardened steel, but is rust an issue? All metal rusts in time.

Cheers
George

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#7
I believe everything develops wear patterns. You might get away with swapping push rods around, but lifters and fulcrums will definitely have wear patterns specific to them. So, while I'm labeling or sorting one into my boxes, I just do them all. It's the way I learned from old timers. I have never had an engine I have rebuilt fail, attention to details is the way I'm wired, drives my wife nuts, sometimes.

As to rust, I never clean the oil off parts until I'm ready to assemble. If a part has been cleaned I spray it with a rust preventative.



“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
--Albert Einstein
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#8
(09-21-2018, 06:10 PM)Don C Wrote: I believe everything develops wear patterns. You might get away with swapping push rods around, but lifters and fulcrums will definitely have wear patterns specific to them. So, while I'm labeling or sorting one into my boxes, I just do them all. It's the way I learned from old timers. I have never had an engine I have rebuilt fail, attention to details is the way I'm wired, drives my wife nuts, sometimes.

As to rust, I never clean the oil off parts until I'm ready to assemble. If a part has been cleaned I spray it with a rust preventative.

Thanks Don, very helpful.

Cheers
George

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#9
If the engine has miles on it put new rockers, push rods, lifters and cam in. Not worth the trouble if worn out. Check the rocker fulcrums for wear on the radius surface and where the rocker tip hits the valve. If worn get new.
I have never seen a Ford engine that the connecting rods and main caps were not numbered from the factory. Sure NOS rods that have never been in an engine will not be stamped but factory assembled engines are stamped. Cast in the main caps. There is a correct way to rotate the rods so that the oil gets squirted onto the wrist pins also.
If you are doing a valve job does not matter where the valves came from.
If you are going to use everything again a piece of cardboard with some holes for push rods works fine. Place the rockers in a box marked front for each side. You never never use old parts on new parts. Sure if one push rod bent or one lifter bad you change the one. Never put new lifters on old cam or old lifters on new cam.


When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??
Tongue
David
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#10
(09-23-2018, 09:37 AM)Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs Wrote: If the engine has miles on it put new rockers, push rods, lifters and cam in. Not worth the trouble if worn out. Check the rocker fulcrums for wear on the radius surface and where the rocker tip hits the valve. If worn get new.
I have never seen a Ford engine that the connecting rods and main caps were not numbered from the factory. Sure NOS rods that have never been in an engine will not be stamped but factory assembled engines are stamped. Cast in the main caps. There is a correct way to rotate the rods so that the oil gets squirted onto the wrist pins also.
If you are doing a valve job does not matter where the valves came from.
If you are going to use everything again a piece of cardboard with some holes for push rods works fine. Place the rockers in a box marked front for each side. You never never use old parts on new parts. Sure if one push rod bent or one lifter bad you change the one. Never put new lifters on old cam or old lifters on new cam.

Hi David, that's very helpful. I will look for the stamping. 

Just one point, I am going to put in a new cam, why can't I use the existing hydraulic lifters, given they have worn into the block (and I did number them)? I would have thought any wear on the cam face would be taken up by the hydraulics?

Cheers
George

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