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Engine Balance
#1
I'm looking to get a fully balanced internal assembly for my build. My question is can I just get my factory flywheel resurfaced? I don't know if our engines are externally balanced or not? I'll also get an ATI zero balanced damper unless someone has a better recommendation? I guess part two question while I'm here...are Eagle forged assemblies good again? I remember years ago about them having quality issues with their cranks? I've been out of the game for a while but can get a pretty good deal on an Eagle all forged all balanced internals. Just wanted to make sure the "Eagle name" isn't junk.Thanks
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#2
Re you running a Cleveland? if so they are a 28 oz external balance so no on the flywheel.

'73 Grandé H Code. Headman long tube headers, T-5 Transmission, 3.70 Traclok, Lowered 1" all around, Aussie 2v heads w/ 2.19 intake, 1.71 exhaust, screw in studs, full roller cam 608/612 lift 280/281 duration LSA 112, Quick Fuel 750 CFM double pumper, AirGap intake.

'73 F code convertible. Bright red. Needs total restore. (IE HOT MESS)

- Jason
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#3
I'd look at Molnar, Compstar (Callies), and maybe K-1. I'm done with Scat and Eagle, seen too many problems. Yes to the ATI damper. Look at Racetec Pistons and rings (ask to speak to Randy). Find a race machine shop to do the balancing and check dimensions on EVERTHING. Trust but verify everything because, in general, QC has gone away. Even if you check everything you can still have big problems due to metallurgy and heat treat deficiencies (ask me how I know).  It is driving many of us out of the hobby because we can't afford the top tier parts and the middle tier is too inconsistent.  I've sent more parts back in the last 5 years than I had in the previous 20 years. It is a problem across the entire industry. Good luck on the build. Chuck
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#4
Thanks guys. Chuck, I was hoping for an all-in-one kit but I guess based on how the QA is with these companies I guess we a lead to piece things together on our own?
Jason, it is a Cleveland so I guess I'm looking at a flywheel also.
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#5
(08-08-2018, 05:57 AM)73\ mach 1 Wrote: I'm looking to get a fully balanced internal assembly for my build. My question is can I just get my factory flywheel resurfaced? I don't know if our engines are externally balanced or not? I'll also get an ATI zero balanced damper unless someone has a better recommendation? I guess part two question while I'm here...are Eagle forged assemblies good again? I remember years ago about them having quality issues with their cranks? I've been out of the game for a while but can get a pretty good deal on an Eagle all forged all balanced internals. Just wanted to make sure the "Eagle name" isn't junk.Thanks

Mike Rogers, in Hatboro, resurfaced my 164 tooth flywheel when he rebuilt my Cleveland.
[Image: Ford_Flywheel_Options.png]

[Image: New_Spec_Stage_3.jpg]

Spec Stage 3- 11" clutch for 164 tooth Flywheel

AutoTec (Race Tec) forged 4032 High Silicone aluminum alloy pistons- (#1000526) 4.030" bore, Race Tec ductile iron rings (AT 4030-Total Seal) & wrist pins (.927 x 2.700), main bearings (MB 5503 XP), rod bearings (CR 807HPN)

Don't be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark...Professionals built the Titanic! thumb

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#6
(08-08-2018, 06:19 PM)EBSTANG Wrote:
(08-08-2018, 05:57 AM)73\ mach 1 Wrote: I'm looking to get a fully balanced internal assembly for my build. My question is can I just get my factory flywheel resurfaced? I don't know if our engines are externally balanced or not? I'll also get an ATI zero balanced damper unless someone has a better recommendation? I guess part two question while I'm here...are Eagle forged assemblies good again? I remember years ago about them having quality issues with their cranks? I've been out of the game for a while but can get a pretty good deal on an Eagle all forged all balanced internals. Just wanted to make sure the "Eagle name" isn't junk.Thanks

Mike Rogers, in Hatboro, resurfaced my 164 tooth flywheel when he rebuilt my Cleveland.
[Image: Ford_Flywheel_Options.png]

[Image: New_Spec_Stage_3.jpg]

Spec Stage 3- 11" clutch for 164 tooth Flywheel

AutoTec (Race Tec)  forged 4032 High Silicone aluminum alloy pistons- (#1000526) 4.030" bore,  Race Tec ductile iron rings (AT 4030-Total Seal) & wrist pins (.927 x 2.700), main bearings (MB 5503 XP), rod bearings (CR 807HPN)

I can't use Mike unless I go through JD's and I'm not interested in doing that. So I'm guessing you're engine is externally balanced? What are you using for the crank and rods Eric?
So my question would be if I'm going with an internally balanced motor and I have to replace the flywheel should I get a 157 or a 164 tooth? I know mine came with a 164. Just want to understand the advantage of one over the other. This is not a drag car so I'm not interested in a lighter flywheel. I understand that the heavier one's are better for street use anyway.
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#7
(08-09-2018, 06:37 AM)73\ mach 1 Wrote:
(08-08-2018, 06:19 PM)EBSTANG Wrote:
(08-08-2018, 05:57 AM)73\ mach 1 Wrote: I'm looking to get a fully balanced internal assembly for my build. My question is can I just get my factory flywheel resurfaced? I don't know if our engines are externally balanced or not? I'll also get an ATI zero balanced damper unless someone has a better recommendation? I guess part two question while I'm here...are Eagle forged assemblies good again? I remember years ago about them having quality issues with their cranks? I've been out of the game for a while but can get a pretty good deal on an Eagle all forged all balanced internals. Just wanted to make sure the "Eagle name" isn't junk.Thanks

Mike Rogers, in Hatboro, resurfaced my 164 tooth flywheel when he rebuilt my Cleveland.
[Image: Ford_Flywheel_Options.png]

[Image: New_Spec_Stage_3.jpg]

Spec Stage 3- 11" clutch for 164 tooth Flywheel

AutoTec (Race Tec)  forged 4032 High Silicone aluminum alloy pistons- (#1000526) 4.030" bore,  Race Tec ductile iron rings (AT 4030-Total Seal) & wrist pins (.927 x 2.700), main bearings (MB 5503 XP), rod bearings (CR 807HPN)

I can't use Mike unless I go through JD's and I'm not interested in doing that. So I'm guessing you're engine is externally balanced? What are you using for the crank and rods Eric?
So my question would be if I'm going with an internally balanced motor and I have to replace the flywheel should I get a 157 or a 164 tooth? I know mine came with a 164. Just want to understand the advantage of one over the other. This is not a drag car so I'm not interested in a lighter flywheel. I understand that the heavier one's are better for street use anyway.
I don't know the specific pro and cons regarding the 164-vs-157 tooth flywheel other than Ford had the 164 as the high performance flywheel. It does get an 11" clutch as opposed to 10 1/2", if that makes much of a diff. If you can choose either I'd be inclined to go 164...why not?

King? cam bearings (#CS 516 BB) Mike used coated bearings, Scat cast steel crank (#9-351-400-6000-2100C) & "I beam" rods w/ 4" stroke (# 2- ICR 6000 7/16)

Do the one piece RMS machine work while the engine is at the machind shop...+$150.± 

[Image: 20170405_150505.jpg]

molar mass for ammonium sulfate



Don't be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark...Professionals built the Titanic! thumb

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#8
You want the 164 tooth wheel. It permits the use of the 11" clutch. In this case bigger is better. You don't need a 30 lb flywheel which is what they all seem to be. The companies all seem to be catering to the drag race world (lots of stored energy for the launch). I had my flywheel lightened by my machine shop, about 25 pounds instead of 30. Yella-Terra does make a lighter steel wheel but, it is expensive. I'd stay with a long style clutch and stock linkage and generally (the slack numbers are not precise but, you do need some slack) follow the Ford manual for adjustment. I'd look at a dual friction disc from McLeod or Ram. If you want max longevity, but a bit on/off engagement, look at a sintered metal disc. Chuck
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#9
(08-09-2018, 09:17 AM)c9zx Wrote: You want the 164 tooth wheel. It permits the use of the 11" clutch. In this case bigger is better. You don't need a 30 lb flywheel which is what they all seem to be. The companies all seem to be catering to the drag race world (lots of stored energy for the launch). I had my flywheel lightened by my machine shop, about 25 pounds instead of 30. Yella-Terra does make a lighter steel wheel but, it is expensive. I'd stay with a long style clutch a stock linkage and generally (the slack numbers are not precise but, you do need some slack) follow the Ford manual for adjustment. I'd look at a dual friction disc from McLeod or Ram. If you want max longevity, but a bit on/off engagement, look at a sintered metal disc. Chuck

Thanks for the info Chuck. I'm still looking into everything I need to convert to hydraulic clutch. I've heard Mcleod is very good. Correct me if I'm wrong but are RAM and Spec clutches are the same?
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#10
Ram and Spec are NOT the same. Tried one Spec (3+) clutch and flywheel in a 2007 Mustang GT with a blower. The clutch would never disengage properly and when I took it out, the disc had ground down the fasteners that held the steel insert onto the aluminum wheel and the fastener metal transferred to the insert. Also one finger had lost tension. A new HD Exedy clutch and flywheel solved all the problems. You should search on "conversion hydraulic release bearing problems". Two years ago they were all problematic, leaks, hard to adjust, and expensive for what you are getting. They may have fixed that by now. Chuck
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