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Carb recommendations?
#11
Yes - Don C brought up a VERY good point, regarding the ebay carb.

As far as the Edelbrocks looking like they're on 'sideways,' I'd never really considered anything like that before.  Interesting you should mention that.  I think it's pretty much just what you're used to and/or prefer.  Once you get 'em adjusted right and working happily with the rest of the engine package, it really doesn't matter which way you go.

Although, I would be suspect of a product based on the thought of having to drill holes in throttle plates just to get it to work right.  Just sayin' Wink  whistling

Cool

Eric

[Image: mach1sig2.gif]
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#12
(04-17-2019, 10:32 AM)Mister 4x4 Wrote: I actually AM an Edelbrock fan... however, I think a 750 might too much carb for a 351C.  I have a 351C-2V with an Edelbrock 1406 on top of a Performer intake and a mild/mid cam from CompCams (see 'My Garage' for engine specs), and it's just about right.  

A 2V engine is a very different animal than a 4V. Even with a mild 214/224 cam, I ran an 800DP with zero issues and instant throttle response. It's all in the how you tune the accelerator pump. Those big ports need a big shot of fuel immediately to get things going.


(04-17-2019, 09:50 AM)scgamecock Wrote: My motor is a .030 over Q code.  I think it has a mild cam.  It does have an edelbrock torque intake.  I've got a 650 dbl pmp Holley on it now however it is not in good shape even after a rebuild.  Its running very rich and the AF mixture screws do very little when adjusted.  Right now they are a full turn out on both sides.  It is shooting fuel up from the throat (Not needle and seat) every time I open the throttle.  Its like the fuel from the shooters is hitting the choke plate and deflecting up in the air.  There is also play in some of the linkage.  I am thinking about giving up on this carb and putting something else on it.  I really don't want to spend $400 + on a new carb.  There is a 750 edelbrock (1407) reman on ebay for $270 + $20 S&H.  Are there any other suggestions???

Anyone have a good carb they want to get rid of?


Sounds like the accelerator pump discharge nozzle was installed upside down. The tubes or the holes in the it should face down to the boosters, not up towards the choke plate. 

Most times when the mixture screws are ineffective, the fuel level is too high. With the engine running, make sure that fuel is not dripping out the boosters. If it is, lower the floats until it stops. The sight plugs are a reference, not a hard and fast setting. I've had to run carbs with them above or below for best performance.

If you do give up on the 650, the Summit carbs are a great value and perform very well. I'm presently running the original Holley 4010 600DP on the 302 in my 71. The carb is based off the Autolite 4100 with annular boosters.


[Image: holley-accelerator-pump-discharge-nozzles-513.gif]


[Image: 121-135.jpg]


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#13
Even though I'm not in the market for a new carburetor, if I were it would be a Summit, it looks to me like they combined the best features of the Ford 4100 and Holleys into their carburetor.

I've had, and worked on, Carter and Edelbrock carburetors and Edelbrocks are at the bottom of my list for potential new carburetors.

My next replacement is likely to be FiTech fuel injection.



“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
--Albert Einstein
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#14
(04-17-2019, 12:30 PM)Mister 4x4 Wrote: Yes - Don C brought up a VERY good point, regarding the ebay carb.

As far as the Edelbrocks looking like they're on 'sideways,' I'd never really considered anything like that before.  Interesting you should mention that.  I think it's pretty much just what you're used to and/or prefer.  Once you get 'em adjusted right and working happily with the rest of the engine package, it really doesn't matter which way you go.

Although, I would be suspect of a product based on the thought of having to drill holes in throttle plates just to get it to work right.  Just sayin' Wink  whistling

Cool

 Yeah, it's funny but they just looks wrong to me and you're probably right that it's what is most commonly seen and we're used to.

As for my carb issues, It's been hashed over many times on here before and to be honest I was reluctant to let the guy do it. This tuner specializes in stock cars (Mud Puddle racers I call 'em) and is a trick often used. Heck, even my daughter who used to be involved with stock cars, knew about it.
**Bottom line is it worked to balance out the air ratio and my plugs reflect that**. Perhaps this s something many are simply not aware of. I do agree though Holley carbs should not need to be tweaked in this fashion, but then  '71 351C 4V's are not the normal engine set up.
Geoff.

Edit note; ** I should have clarified this is to balance the A/F ratio at idle. Once off idle, it has no effect.

I learn something new every day!
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#15
That may not be the best carb for you’re application, but it still should not shoot gas up into the air. The nozzles must be pointed up instead of down.

run_horse Run Horse Run!
John 72 Q Code
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#16
On a side note here...…...Holley Carburetor was an OEM supplier to Ford as far back as the Model T days. The Holley 4160 carb ( that we all know today ) was designed originally for the 1957 Ford T-Bird 312 and was original equipment on it. Holley's Dominator carb was designed originally for the big Ford Boss engines running Nascar. The 4150 Holley carbs were OEM on various Boss 302 and 428 Fords. Holleys are appropriate on Fords, and are quite simple. That said, the Summit carb was DESIGNED and marketed by Holley around 1989. Summit bought the rights to sell them cast as their own, but have been around for years, and are very decent carbs, and they have the one piece body and down-leg boosters as the Ford 4100 carbs were famously designed with ( the 4100 is a good carb in it's own right, I think Ford stopped putting them on their 4bbl engines around '68) . Holley released the model 4010 carb ( the Summit carb ) around 1989. Even though the Edelbrock carb is a Weber re-do of the original Carter AFB, for some reason, they don't run as well as the old Carter AFBs, especially the "Competition Series" AFBs, which were great.
Personally, I like the Holley 4160 and Summit carbs on the street with an automatic. I'd go to the 4150 if I had a hotter 4 speed. But , in any case, I find that I'll trust rebuilding as long as the carb was purchased new by me in the first place ...…….otherwise, you may never know of internal problems. The very best rule of thumb, if you're not well versed in carburetors, is to just buy a new one.
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#17
(04-17-2019, 12:40 PM)Don C Wrote: Even though I'm not in the market for a new carburetor, if I were it would be a Summit, it looks to me like they combined the best features of the Ford 4100 and Holleys into their carburetor.

I've had, and worked on, Carter and Edelbrock carburetors and Edelbrocks are at the bottom of my list for potential new carburetors.

My next replacement is likely to be FiTech fuel injection.

My experience mirror's yours. I have run the Summit carbs on two applications and found it to be one of the best carbs out there for the street. Those big annular boosters are just what the doctor ordered for a Cleveland and I like the fact that you can change jets without spilling fuel. A 750 VS would work fine. On the flip side, the Summit carb may give up some HP vs, a traditional Holley or Quick Fuel that is equipped with traditional downleg boosters. I've seen it on the dyno with my 306 Windsor and also read similar in carburetor shootouts. It would not be my first choice on a car that I raced however; the throttle response, quick starting and good fuel mileage are what you want on a street cruiser.
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#18
You can get a brand new summit carb, 750 cfm w/electric choke for 315 bucks and free shipping. Why would you take a chance on something used on flea bay? For about 20-25 bucks more you get a great carb that’s brand new. Sounds like a no brainer to me. Even if you don’t get that one, I think you will have less headaches with a new one. Just my thought. Good luck with whatever you end up doing.

run_horse Run Horse Run!
John 72 Q Code
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#19
Perhaps I just did not know or realize until recently, that Quick Fuel carbs are made by Holley. I always thought they were an off-shoot carb designed by some ex Holley engineers. Maybe my info was wrong from the start. Last week, I was looking at new carbs and went to the Holley website only to find Quick Fuel listed as well. On the Holley website, one can enter the specs for your engine. For a 351 @5500rpm max with mild modifications, it listed carbs between 570 and 600 cfm. This does not take into account the 351C 4V's massive valves and ports. I was also looking at the Summit brand. 

Reading the latest post from Spike and others and if cost is a consideration, the Summit brand would probably be top of the list. I forget which of the Australian members said he had the summit and was very happy with it.

I learn something new every day!
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#20
(04-17-2019, 08:29 PM)Spike Morelli Wrote: On a side note here...…...Holley Carburetor was an OEM supplier to Ford as far back as the Model T days. The Holley 4160 carb ( that we all know today ) was designed originally for the 1957 Ford T-Bird 312 and was original equipment on it. Holley's Dominator carb was designed originally for the big Ford Boss engines running Nascar. The 4150 Holley carbs were OEM on various Boss 302 and 428 Fords.  Holleys are appropriate on Fords, and are quite simple.  That said, the Summit carb was DESIGNED and marketed by Holley around 1989. Summit bought the rights to  sell them cast as their own, but have been around for years, and are very decent carbs, and they have the one piece body and down-leg boosters as the Ford 4100 carbs were famously designed with ( the 4100 is a good carb in it's own right, I think Ford stopped putting them on their 4bbl engines around '68) . Holley released the model 4010 carb ( the Summit carb ) around 1989.  Even though the Edelbrock carb is a Weber re-do of the original Carter AFB, for some reason, they don't run as well as the old Carter AFBs, especially the "Competition Series" AFBs, which were great.
Personally, I like the Holley 4160 and Summit carbs on the street with an automatic. I'd go to the 4150 if I had a hotter 4 speed. But , in any case, I find that I'll trust rebuilding as long as the carb was purchased new by me in the first place ...…….otherwise, you may never know of internal problems. The very best rule of thumb, if you're not well versed in carburetors, is to just buy a new one.

Spike, Amen to all that you just stated. Ron
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