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Cal tracs and subframes?
#1
Trying to figure out if global west sub frames will work with caltrac bars? I think I read they interfere. I'd like to run a round tubular style subframe. I do a lot of drag racing.
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#2
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tmf-109401
Try these, I run these with caltracs.
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#3
There is a thread in the forum of a DIY subframes that are identical to the tinman's subframes. I followed this instructions and they came out great!

copied the URL of the thread...don't know if this is the right way but here it is:

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=htt...are_type=t

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
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#4
Since you enjoy drag racing I would also look at installing a roll bar system. Yes the sub frame connectors do add some strength but not much. They use the cheapest steel for sure. If you did make your own I would look at getting some HSLA, High Strength Low Allow which is very forgiving to MIG or TIG welding and does not require annealing of the welds. Will be more than double the strength of CR Box tubing.
You might also see if a supplier has any of the UHSS, Ultra High Strength Steel which will be 4 time the yield as CR. I was an automotive product, process and tooling engineer for years. These new steels are how they are improving the handling, crash abilities and weights on the new cars. For is even using in outside skin panels. If they get bent in crash no way to hammer out and fix you have to replace the panels.
I used the UHSS in a redesign of the John Deere Combines to take weight out but still make the unit stronger.
I am hoping to get back on my 72 Q vert and I need a roll bar system to be able to run track days without a speed limit. I am also looking at putting extra metal inside the rocker boxes so not seen and are at the widest point to gain the most. Will also have at least a 6 point roll bar. Bar tubing is DOM Drawn Over Mandrel so no weld seam like regular box tubing. All tubing starts out round and is rolled into square or rectangle.
The biggest gain in rigidity will be from a roll cage with the long triangles that are generated. The height of the sub frame connectors is just a couple inches so the bracing will be minimal compared to say over 3 feet on angle on a roll bar. Any space frame design will always be stronger and lighter. There are suppliers that make the bar kits but I have not checked I have a bender for 3" dia. down to 1/2" so I can make what I need.
BTW if you use 4140 Chrome Molly steel you should check into the process to anneal the welds to prevent stress cracks later at the welds. It is strong but not as good as the new steels are. When ending a weld you should tail it off away from the end of the joint. That helps prevent a stress point. Any plates should be put on with a curved end to weld so that you do not generate a line that bends easier. Take a look at say the lifting arms on a 2 post lift. A good design will have curved ends on all the brackets welded on. A sorry design will have straight across welds that produce a high stress area. Might also look at a track hoe or dozer to see how they do the welds. Not rocket science but there is some science to it.
Had MRI done Friday know tomorrow if my back is totally gone or not. Maybe they can put a connector in me to keep me going, lol.
Don't be afraid to go on your own for sure. There is no design that cannot be made better.
D


When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??
Tongue
David
  Reply
#5
Did you also post this on Facebook?

I have Global West SFCs and I can't think of any reason why they'd hit with CalTracs or anything inline with the rear springs, for that matter.

The Global West SFCs are perfectly inline with the rear subframes, but not the fronts (which are spaced narrower on the car).

Here are some shots of mine installed - please forgive the crappy welds, they're very solid if nothing else Wink

You can see how they bend in toward the front frame rails - this is the passenger side, if you couldn't tell:

[Image: attachment.php?aid=29802]

Here's the rear sub frame end - perfectly inline and doesn't interfere at all with the leaf spring perches.  Sorry for the bondo dust and primer over spray dust - it's long since been wiped clean.
[Image: attachment.php?aid=34693]

Just in case anyone was wondering, yes I made a rock shield for the fuel pump.  Everything clears wonderfully... even with 295-50R15s on 15x10s:

[Image: attachment.php?aid=34694]

Kinda hard to tell, but they go straight forward (to the left in this pic) of the rear sub frames and stay clear of the front spring perches:

[Image: attachment.php?aid=29508]

Hope this helps!

Eric

[Image: mach1sig2.gif]
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#6
(08-05-2018, 09:22 AM)Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs Wrote: Since you enjoy drag racing I would also look at installing a roll bar system. Yes the sub frame connectors do add some strength but not much. They use the cheapest steel for sure. If you did make your own I would look at getting some HSLA, High Strength Low Allow which is very forgiving to MIG or TIG welding and does not require annealing of the welds. Will be more than double the strength of CR Box tubing.
You might also see if a supplier has any of the UHSS, Ultra High Strength Steel which will be 4 time the yield as CR. I was an automotive product, process and tooling engineer for years. These new steels are how they are improving the handling, crash abilities and weights on the new cars. For is even using in outside skin panels. If they get bent in crash no way to hammer out and fix you have to replace the panels.
I used the UHSS in a redesign of the John Deere Combines to take weight out but still make the unit stronger.
I am hoping to get back on my 72 Q vert and I need a roll bar system to be able to run track days without a speed limit. I am also looking at putting extra metal inside the rocker boxes so not seen and are at the widest point to gain the most. Will also have at least a 6 point roll bar. Bar tubing is DOM Drawn Over Mandrel so no weld seam like regular box tubing. All tubing starts out round and is rolled into square or rectangle.
The biggest gain in rigidity will be from a roll cage with the long triangles that are generated. The height of the sub frame connectors is just a couple inches so the bracing will be minimal compared to say over 3 feet on angle on a roll bar. Any space frame design will always be stronger and lighter. There are suppliers that make the bar kits but I have not checked I have a bender for 3" dia. down to 1/2" so I can make what I need.
BTW if you use 4140 Chrome Molly steel you should check into the process to anneal the welds to prevent stress cracks later at the welds. It is strong but not as good as the new steels are. When ending a weld you should tail it off away from the end of the joint. That helps prevent a stress point. Any plates should be put on with a curved end to weld so that you do not generate a line that bends easier. Take a look at say the lifting arms on a 2 post lift. A good design will have curved ends on all the brackets welded on. A sorry design will have straight across welds that produce a high stress area. Might also look at a track hoe or dozer to see how they do the welds. Not rocket science but there is some science to it.
Had MRI done Friday know tomorrow if my back is totally gone or not. Maybe they can put a connector in me to keep me going, lol.
Don't be afraid to go on your own for sure. There is no design that cannot be made better.
D

Thanks for the tips 10 point cage will be going in and I hope to tie everything in together. I do alot of structure welding at work I'm sure its same fundamentals. I haven't decided on chrome moly yet or not. It sounds nice for weight savings. But  to be tiged correctly
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#7
I know you mentioned there being an issue with the spring perch bolts hitting the Global West SFCs, but what about sliding the bolt in from the outside with the nut on the inside (closer to the frame rail), rather than from the inside to the nut on the outside?  That's how I had to do my rear shackles on the frame with the tank already in-place.

Could also put on the Cal Tracs before the SFCs... but that really wouldn't solve the bolt clearance issue, I suppose.

Just throwing that out there.  If they don't fit, they don't fit after all.  Cool

Eric

[Image: mach1sig2.gif]
  Reply
#8
(08-04-2018, 08:18 PM)Ghostriderblk Wrote: Trying to figure out if global west sub frames will work with caltrac bars? I think I read they interfere. I'd like to run a round tubular style subframe. I do a lot of drag racing.

Not sure on the Global west but 100% on the Tinman fabrication ones. I am running that combination.
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#9
(08-05-2018, 03:12 PM)Ghostriderblk Wrote:
(08-05-2018, 09:22 AM)Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs Wrote: Since you enjoy drag racing I would also look at installing a roll bar system. Yes the sub frame connectors do add some strength but not much. They use the cheapest steel for sure. If you did make your own I would look at getting some HSLA, High Strength Low Allow which is very forgiving to MIG or TIG welding and does not require annealing of the welds. Will be more than double the strength of CR Box tubing.
You might also see if a supplier has any of the UHSS, Ultra High Strength Steel which will be 4 time the yield as CR. I was an automotive product, process and tooling engineer for years. These new steels are how they are improving the handling, crash abilities and weights on the new cars. For is even using in outside skin panels. If they get bent in crash no way to hammer out and fix you have to replace the panels.
I used the UHSS in a redesign of the John Deere Combines to take weight out but still make the unit stronger.
I am hoping to get back on my 72 Q vert and I need a roll bar system to be able to run track days without a speed limit. I am also looking at putting extra metal inside the rocker boxes so not seen and are at the widest point to gain the most. Will also have at least a 6 point roll bar. Bar tubing is DOM Drawn Over Mandrel so no weld seam like regular box tubing. All tubing starts out round and is rolled into square or rectangle.
The biggest gain in rigidity will be from a roll cage with the long triangles that are generated. The height of the sub frame connectors is just a couple inches so the bracing will be minimal compared to say over 3 feet on angle on a roll bar. Any space frame design will always be stronger and lighter. There are suppliers that make the bar kits but I have not checked I have a bender for 3" dia. down to 1/2" so I can make what I need.
BTW if you use 4140 Chrome Molly steel you should check into the process to anneal the welds to prevent stress cracks later at the welds. It is strong but not as good as the new steels are. When ending a weld you should tail it off away from the end of the joint. That helps prevent a stress point. Any plates should be put on with a curved end to weld so that you do not generate a line that bends easier. Take a look at say the lifting arms on a 2 post lift. A good design will have curved ends on all the brackets welded on. A sorry design will have straight across welds that produce a high stress area. Might also look at a track hoe or dozer to see how they do the welds. Not rocket science but there is some science to it.
Had MRI done Friday know tomorrow if my back is totally gone or not. Maybe they can put a connector in me to keep me going, lol.
Don't be afraid to go on your own for sure. There is no design that cannot be made better.
D

Thanks for the tips 10 point cage will be going in and I hope to tie everything in together. I do alot of structure welding at work I'm sure its same fundamentals. I haven't decided on chrome moly yet or not. It sounds nice for weight savings. But  to be tiged correctly

Sounds like you are going to do some serious drag racing. 10 point will be super strong and should take all the flex out without the little bit the sub frame connectors would do. Does not the drag racing rules set the type, thickness material for the bars?


When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??
Tongue
David
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