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Build Plans for 73 Mach 1, input requested
#11
(11-30-2018, 08:58 PM)Mister 4x4 Wrote:
(11-30-2018, 08:18 PM)Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs Wrote: Unless you have done this several times before I see a failed project in the making. Too much of a good thing can end a project before it begins.
Why not just go buy an done well complete car for half what you are talking about investing and be driving it tomorrow?

Dude - why ya gotta be like that?  

Not every one has to be faithfully restored, ya know.  Maybe he's got a low-value, complete basket case like mine was, in which case you might as well build it how you like it since pretty much everything needs to be done anyway.  Maybe his dream is to have an awesome '73 as a daily driver, but he doesn't want to give up creature comforts and have a bullet-proof car as well.  That was my plan, but then I got a new truck shortly after I got mine shiny and running again, and now I don't want to subject it to overcrowded parking lots and San Angelo drivers.

It looks to me like he's got a solid plan, knows what he wants, and has picked out good components.  That's what I did as well, and I love my car... wouldn't change a thing about it (OK, maybe a couple of minor things, like not moving the seat platforms back when I replaced the floors, that is).
 I'm about 12k into my build. A little more than half is body and paint. I expect to be around 25k when it's done and I will know every inch of it.

How many times have we seen guys buy cars that are " done " just to have it redone right a year or so later.


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- Mike
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#12
There is a lot of good information here. One thing i will add is that you will be spinning those 215 skinny tires very easily. With all the upgrades to the suspension you are talking about may as well get bigger tires to take advantage. You can fit 245s on front and 295s in back.

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        [Image: 20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg]

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump
4-wheel disc brakes
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#13
Also, with all the upgrades you are considering why not install coated headers in place of the stock manifold.

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        [Image: 20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg]

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump
4-wheel disc brakes
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#14
(12-01-2018, 09:58 AM)tony-muscle Wrote: There is a lot of good information here. One thing i will add is that you will be spinning those 215 skinny tires very easily. With all the upgrades to the suspension you are talking about may as well get bigger tires to take advantage. You can fit 245s on front and 295s in back.

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True - I think I'd probably go with 235s, considering the 55-series sidewalls.  Don't really need all the extra handling goodies if you can't make it stick, after all. Wink

(12-01-2018, 10:02 AM)tony-muscle Wrote: Also, with all the upgrades you are considering why not install coated headers in place of the stock manifold.

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It sounds like he's going for quiet and reliable.  Headers will add a little bit to the noise the mufflers have to quell.

Eric

[Image: mach1sig2.gif]
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#15
(11-30-2018, 08:58 PM)Mister 4x4 Wrote:
(11-30-2018, 08:18 PM)Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs Wrote: Unless you have done this several times before I see a failed project in the making. Too much of a good thing can end a project before it begins.
Why not just go buy an done well complete car for half what you are talking about investing and be driving it tomorrow?

Dude - why ya gotta be like that?  

Not every one has to be faithfully restored, ya know.  Maybe he's got a low-value, complete basket case like mine was, in which case you might as well build it how you like it since pretty much everything needs to be done anyway.  Maybe his dream is to have an awesome '73 as a daily driver, but he doesn't want to give up creature comforts and have a bullet-proof car as well.  That was my plan, but then I got a new truck shortly after I got mine shiny and running again, and now I don't want to subject it to overcrowded parking lots and San Angelo drivers.

It looks to me like he's got a solid plan, knows what he wants, and has picked out good components.  That's what I did as well, and I love my car... wouldn't change a thing about it (OK, maybe a couple of minor things, like not moving the seat platforms back when I replaced the floors, that is).

Why? Because last couple years I went and looked at probably 10 failed projects. Lots of great parts pilled up and car 1/3 to 1/2 done and they were burnt out. The 72 CJ Q vert I did buy had $16,000 in receipts and was just back to a rolling chassis. I was only person to even make him an offer in 9 months and I got the car and all the parts for $5,500. He had already built the engine and transmission. Why people do that is because the mechanic work is easy. The body and chassis take all the time.
One that was in Charlotte was a beautiful Grabber blue 72 mach 1 that was through paint and ready to go back together. He just got burnt out.
The last one was a 73 coupe in Atlanta. I think he sold it for $2,500 had new floors, trunk, cowl, tail light panel and ready for paint. He had all the interior and his health stopped him.
I see them on cl all the time.
A 66 coupe in Virginia was a disaster. He had installed floors and frame rails and you could put your fingers between the parts. It would not even make a good parts car. His garage had all the welders, lift and lots of room but he just did not have the skills to do the work right.
Not wanting to discourage anyone. You see me tell people glad to see them dig in and work on their cars.
All he has listed for work would take an experienced mechanic and body man probably 2,000 hours to do.
I just hate to see someone go crazy with the check book and get all those great parts and then get burnt out because they did not know what all was involved.
If he has family I am sure they will be all over him for not spending enough time with them.
I want everyone to learn and work on their cars but also know that what you see them do on TV in a few weeks is not realistic. They build half built half ass cars that will never last.
Like me I have all these projects and a crushed disc so I can do very little. I still restore some consoles and do some small stuff. I cannot sand on body or lift at all. One year ago all was good but not so now.
If he has done cars before and understands the scope then go for it. I just want him to be able to finish it and it be right.


When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??
Tongue
David
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#16
OK - I can respect your perspective.  Thanks for taking the time to explain.

You're right - there are plenty of half-assed, half-done cars out there to go around, and many for any/all of the reasons you mentioned, and most of them wind up back on CL with the sellers usually taking a loss.  But they all start out the same: with a goal and motivation.

I think I'm more excited to see this guy's project come to light because I was pretty much in the same boat as he is (don't know how bad his jump-off point is, though).  I ain't gonna lie - I learned a lot on my car, and there are some areas that I would love to get a do-over on (the cowl and some of the other replacement sheet metal areas come to mind, along with the 'did it myself upholstery') but I know my car's solid and will last for many years to come, so I'm OK with that.

I called you out because I remember I had a lot of people telling me it was too much for me to do, and I'd never get it done.  What they didn't realize is that I knew they were projecting their own lack of confidence and short-comings onto me without knowing how determined, adaptable, and skillful I really am - so I took their negativity and fed off it as motivation for my own purposes (to make them eat their words).

By the same token, my morale, confidence and motivation was through the roof when I got to know the members here.  I learned almost everything I needed to know about the things I needed to do and made a lot of great friends who became the biggest part of my cheerleading squad - which literally kept me in the game when things slowed down for me...

... and that's what I'm trying to reflect and pay-forward in my comments.  I've been down the same road he's looking to travel.  Now it's time to share our experience, knowledge, and positivity to help the guy along to success with his big pony project.


And yes, I might've actually just made up the word "positivity," since it has a red squiggly underneath in 'edit' mode.  rofl

Eric

[Image: mach1sig2.gif]
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#17
This post makes no sense to me. You're going to drop well north of $60k (if not $100k) on this build, all to have a daily you can work on? If you think new cars are a PITA to work on, wait 'til you have to troubleshoot all the randomly assembled bits on this build to work together properly. IMO, if you want a reliable, fun daily, go lease a new car and you'll never have to work on it if you keep the mileage within the warranty period.

David has a good perspective on projects in that way too many guys start dropping huge money on parts, then the wife decides she wants a new Benz/bigger boobs, or the market or their health goes tits up and that's the end of that.

What I see in the first post is a lot of catalog shopping, not a lot of actual parts from experienced users - then we're going to toss in a stock rebuild 351C-2V with a slightly bigger cam?
Rod and Custom markets to the street rod crowd - aka - the Armor All and show trophy crew. The stock 71-73 suspension is not perfect, but you don't need to butcher up the car and put in a Pinto front end and to make it handle or ride nice. The Pinto doesn't handle that well either. Talk to the guys at Street or Track to work you up a suspension package that'll suit your tastes. I guarantee it'll run 1/3 the cost of that R&C unit or even less when you forget about the TCP rear coil overs. I'd also go with Wilwood if you want brakes that actually work.


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#18
Well, it might make a little more sense knowing that he's owned the car for around 30 years, and has been working on restoring a couple of Studebakers.  I admit that I just poked around a little and discovered his other threads (asking about wind noise and power door locks). It sounds to me like he's starting out with a fairly nice project and just wants to improve what he already has to make it nicer and suitable for daily driver duty, rather than starting cold with a restoration project requiring more than just adding the laundry list of parts he's researched.

I can also certainly understand the sentiment of not wanting a newer car that can't be worked on because all new cars are engineered to make it very difficult for the DIYer to properly diagnose and maintain on their own.  There are some issues in my Mom's '01 Grand Prix that I've had trouble tracking down that would be much simpler to resolve were the car's various system components not wired together and programmed to work through the ECM/BCM, rather than independently as our cars are configured (for instance, there is no sane reason that a bad HVAC fan switch should be able to take out the dome lights, automatic headlights, and daytime running lamps, after all).

You and David bring up very good points about how projects become stalled and wind up on Craigslist going for much less than their sum of parts.  However, I think this is one of those times where that's not going to be the case and it'll take a lot more to squelch his enthusiasm than that.

I'm not up on which suspension kits are the best, better than others, or absolute turds, for that matter, so it's good to know that the R&C kits might be a little more about the bling, and less about actual performance... and I totally agree about the TCP coil-overs being WAY too overpriced, but what's the alternative? (I'm kind of asking for my own purposes now - I still want to drop the front of mine about an inch eventually, since my 1" drop springs from Laurel Mountain Mustang are anything but 1" dropped.)

Good stuff here, guys.  He did ask for input, after all. Wink

Eric

[Image: mach1sig2.gif]
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#19
Hi guys, Thanks for the feedback. Eric, it sounds like you have built yourself a pretty awesome car.

I guess I should have provided a little more back story on this thing in my original post. I have owned this car for 30 plus years. Dad got it for me when I was in high school. It was my daily driver until I got a real job and could afford to buy my first new car (94 Dodge Ram). From my high school days, this is what I remember about the car. The front cross member had rust in the bottom of it. The front end would not stay in alignment even though all the components were new so maybe the cross member was at fault or maybe it was that 351C sitting on top of light weight front end components. Either way my front cross member needs to be replaced. I figure that if I have to go to the trouble of replacing it, might as well go to a more modern setup.

I have put a lot of thought into the trade-offs of the electronics I am adding to make it a more enjoyable car to drive vs. the keep it simple and stock approach. I doubt I would want to drive it everyday without the electronics I am planning. If most of the electronics fail, it doesn't disable the car. If the Trans controller, EFI or ignition system fails, they are each stand-alone systems. I can just buy another one if I have to. I will also feel better about troubleshooting because I would have built it myself so I will understand the car better than the car I currently drive to work. I will know the purpose of every hose and wire and what it does.

There is some rust in the car but not as bad as the Studebakers I have restored. At least with a mustang I can buy the panels I need and don't have to fabricate them.

It is an original AC car so all the necessary pulleys are there. I am looking forward to getting rid of that massive OEM compressor and getting something smaller that doesn't cover half the engine.

As for the wiring, that doesn't worry me. I make my living as an electrical engineer. My plan is to create a electrical schematic that is specific to this car as I build it. I used the same approach on my Studebaker and it worked out great. It didn't get as many electrical mods as this one will but the concept is the same.

As for my personal experience. Below are some photos of my Stude. Dad and I spent about 6 years on this one. We are currently about two years into the work on his 50 model Studebaker, hoping to finish it the next year or so. Once it is done we will start on my Mustang. We are not professionals by any means, but we are pretty happy with the way my Stude turned out.

[Image: A.jpg]

[Image: V.jpg]

[Image: CD-Daughtridge.jpg]
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#20
I hope all of the high dollars spent on upgrading these Mustangs have the classic type insurance coverage. Standard insurance will NOT cover the $12K to $60K that you have invested in your 71-73 mustangs.

Thanks,
mustang7173 Thankyouyellow

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway" -- John Wayne
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