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Body work advice
#1
I have been tackling my first body work project on a 76 jeep CJ I am doing for a guy out of the northeast. He replaced the body tub with a fiberglass tub and we are re-using the metal grill, hood, doors and tailgate. I metal worked some larger dents out of the hood and used a minimal amount of filler. After priming the hood with high build primer and blocking last night I am still not happy with the straightness of the hood. There are several low spots in the metal just from being a 76 hood panel. I would like to get this as flat as possible. Now that I have sprayed and blocked the high build I suspect I will need to bring it back down to the epoxy primer for any more smoothing. I am thinking I may coat the heck out of it with Evercoat Rage Gold and then block it down from there. Following that recoat with the high build to fill any scratches and a few mils of irregularity. Should I approach this differently? I just hate using to much filler, but I am talking 1/8 - 2/8 thickness at most. On a hood I just see the guy at some point dropping it down to close and a chunk of filler flying off. I would appreciate some expert advice. Thanx

The attached pictures was before body work. This was during initial set up for gapping. Just wanted to include so you understand it is not major dents I am dealing with. Like primer gray would allow you to see them.


.jpg   16265545_1443566619011619_4422849214127105133_n.jpg (Size: 25.68 KB / Downloads: 201)
   

BKDunha
72 Mach 1 H-Code (Concourse driven restoration)
67 S-Code Factory GT with 4-Spd

68 Mercury Cyclone (Pro-Street project)
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#2
Expert advice: I pay the experts to do this type of work. Hope you can work it out satisfactorily.
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#3
Can't learn if you don't try. Would rather learn on a small project that the quarter panel of a 7173.

BKDunha
72 Mach 1 H-Code (Concourse driven restoration)
67 S-Code Factory GT with 4-Spd

68 Mercury Cyclone (Pro-Street project)
  Reply
#4
Hi Brian,

I see your situation here. You have to some extent, got yourself into a bit of a pickle here. I take it you started off by priming the bare steel with a good brand epoxy primer, then having sanded it up for adhesion purposes, applied your Gold filler where needed, blocked the filler down, and then moved into your 2K high build primer/putty. And now, trouble.Undecided

Your approach is all good and what it should be. There is of course, an art to correctly blocking down your filler. The two basic secrets are to use top quality long blocks, such as Durablocks, the right grades of paper, and use a black spray on guide coat(mat black acrylic lacquer) as you are working/ sanding and shaping/taking down the filler. These things should bring very good results for getting your panels straight. Blocking techniques are oh so important as well of course.

Once you have satisfied yourself that your filler work is nice and straight as can be, then move into spraying two or three medium wet coats of your epoxy primer over the whole panel to seal it all up. Let dry and cure out, then sand up epoxy for adhesion again, and apply around four medium wet coats of 2K high build primer /putty as a putty.

Now using your Durablocks again and your mat black guide coats, long block down the high build primer.(240 dry or 240 wet and dry) This process should be all you need to end up with a straight panel. You will need to move into sanding with finer grades of paper to avoid sand scratches appearing in your color coats. If you have any steel panel flexing or wobbling going on, that will mean trouble in getting the panel finally straight. You may never win there with that flexing going on. If you find that you still have some minor highs and lows, then apply more high build primer to those areas, and block again. Once all the block work is done, get a white cotton rag, saturate it with wax and grease remover, and then wipe it over the sanded panel. After wiping on, inspect or read the panel from different angles in the light and read the glossy panel for highs and lows or to see how straight the panel is.

Getting back to your situation though - you can't or should not attempt to apply any Gold filler over your existing high build primer/ putty. That will not work and bring bad results later. What you need to do now, i'm afraid is to sand off all the high build primer/filler with a D/A or random orbital sander down to the filler and epoxy primer layers. Once done, move into doing more filler work, blocking etc, etc, and once you're happy with your filler work, then move into your epoxy primer and so forth and so on .............. You can't apply your Gold filler over the high build primer, and you should not be spraying epoxy primer back over your high build primer as well.

Also - stay away from using Polyester Spray On Body Fillers to get you out of trouble. They will end up getting you back into trouble here as well. I would also at your stage where you are now, stay away from using 2 Pack wiping putty. This can be wiped over the sanded down high build primer to try and sort out your highs and lows, but it requires a lot of skill and patience to straighten out the panel properly, and more times than often further requires a large amount of high build putty and aggressive sanding to finish off with over the panel, to try and get it straight.

Reference -

http://www.dura-block.com/sanding-blocks

Hope that all helps,

Greg.Smile

whistling LORD, MR FORD - JERRY REED
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#5
I bought the 7 piece durablock kit and it works great. I also bought a set of soft sanders too. They are a little easier to use on the rounded areas. Im in the same boat as you.... sand sand sand!! Keep up the good work, that's going to be a nice looking jeep!

http://www.eastwood.com/16-inch-stylelin...swodeCELvw

[Image: hx44fk.jpg]

Kevin

1971 Mach 1
408C Stroker
C4 w/3,000 stall
8.8" Rear w/3.73's
Disc brakes all way around.

[Image: 28ivsix.png]




                                                                                             
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#6
Greg, thank you for the advice and the steps to follow. I was fearing I needed to take it all the way back down to the epoxy. I did not know I could put epoxy back over the filler layer when done before applying a high build. Learned a new one from your post. I do have the durablocks and have been using them throughout the leveling process. Kevin, I need to get a set of those soft sanders. Jeeps do not have many curves on them with the exception of the hood. I have been using some foam packing material from a shipping box that is flat and flexible to go over the rounded contour of the hood. Well, looks like the DA and some 80 grit will get pulled out tonight. Thank you all.

BKDunha
72 Mach 1 H-Code (Concourse driven restoration)
67 S-Code Factory GT with 4-Spd

68 Mercury Cyclone (Pro-Street project)
  Reply
#7
So before my DA crapped out I took one side of the hood down pretty far but not all the way down to bare metal over all. I did break through to bare metal in a couple of high areas. I tapped those down. I ran a straight edge along the length of the hood and the deepest low spot below the straight edge was no more than an 1/8 of an inch. Can I be lazy and now epoxy prime over this or do I need to go all the way down to bare metal? If I can please oh please I would apply high build over that. I want it done right so I will do what is right.

   
   
   

BKDunha
72 Mach 1 H-Code (Concourse driven restoration)
67 S-Code Factory GT with 4-Spd

68 Mercury Cyclone (Pro-Street project)
  Reply
#8
Sorry Brian,

there is no easy, get out of jail way around it. Like i said, you will need to remove all the high build primer down to the epoxy primer, gold filler, and/or the bare metal, because you can't apply the gold filler over the high build primer, and you can't spray the epoxy primer over the high build either. Sorry.Undecided

What i would do now, is sand off and remove all the high build primer, then apply two to three coats of epoxy primer over the whole hood. Let cure, and then move into your Gold filler work over the epoxy. The approach here is to spray a black guide coat over the cured epoxy you just laid down. Now, using your long Durablock (about 1 foot long or longer) with some 240 dry paper, lightly block sand the hood with out going through the epoxy primer anywhere. Doing this will reveal all the highs and lows that are in the panel. Wipe off all excess guide coat with thinners. You will still then be able to see where the highs and lows are by the sanding marks alone, as all you are doing here is scratching up the surface as a guide. Now move in and do your filler work.(never put filler over un sanded epoxy primer) Once you're happy with your filler work, you then have two choices.

You can move into your high build primer/ putty straight over what you have now, (the whole hood with 3 to 4 good coats) or you can apply another two coats of epoxy primer over what you have now, (the whole hood) and then move into your high build primer /putty to finish off with. Option or choice two is the better one to follow i feel. Remember, if you go for choice one, and you find that you have revealed a few spots of bare metal again, then those steel spots must be pre spot primed either with an etch primer, or spot spray the steel with epoxy primer. You should not be spraying high build primer/ putty over bare steel.

BTW - Sorry about your D/A machine dying. What a drag.Angry

Hope that all helps,

Greg.Smile

whistling LORD, MR FORD - JERRY REED
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#9
Brian, I am no expert at bodywork but when I did mine I got a lot of information and advice from this website http://autobodystore.com/forum/index.php There's a lot of knowledgeable people on there. Ryan

1973 Mach 1, Porsche Guards Red, 429/C6
1972 Mach 1, Grabber Blue, 302/C4, currently under construction
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#10
Greg & Ryan, thank you for the feedback and the research reference. I was looking for the get out of jail card on this one, but I want it right. I really appreciate the help and looks like I am buying a new DA tonight. Ugh!

BKDunha
72 Mach 1 H-Code (Concourse driven restoration)
67 S-Code Factory GT with 4-Spd

68 Mercury Cyclone (Pro-Street project)
  Reply
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