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A/C Parts Needed for 134a conversion
#1
I just got my Mustang a couple of weeks ago and not much is known about what has or has not been done to it.  The A/C system is very questionable.  It doesnt blow very cold at all.  The service ports on the compressor look like one has a 134a fitting on it and the other has the R12 fitting on it.  I am trying to determine if it has been converted or not, or if someone just threw a fitting on there and dumped a can of A/C PRO in it so that it would work long enough for them to sell it.  So my main question is, are there any markings on the hoses that show they are for 134 or R 12?  Is the expansion valve different?  I have seen in some posts where the expansion valve is inside the air box and has a probe that goes down into the core.  Mine is mounted on the line in the engine compartment and looks like the picture below......


[Image: 0009188_100.jpg]

Here is a pic of the service ports.

[Image: 20170722_184704.jpg]

all the hoses are paintedSad so hopefully only the top is painted. 

The clutch seems to work fine and the compressor too, so hopefully that will be ok for a while.  At some point I suppose I will convert to the sanden style compressor.

Looking on the Original Air site, they dont specifically state if any of their parts are for 134a or R-12 for the most part at least.  Which is kind of annoying.  I know the original R-12 hoses won't take the pressure that the 134a runs at, and you need the inner core type of lines.  They dont specify that on their site, so I am wondering if all their lines are 134a compatible and can be used on either R12 or 134a which would make sense.  I just wish they would tell you either way.  Same for the expansion valve.  Im pretty sure the orifice size is different since it is on my Bronco.  But they dont say anything about that either.

Any help would be great.  I just want to be able to ask intelligent questions when I get them on the phone.
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#2
When I asked the questions you have I was told all that had to change was the o-rings to the ones made for the 134. I have changed mine and I was told to get an new canister to go out front since it acts as the filter. The expansion valve on all I have seen is on the outside. I took the entire system apart and cleaned and put new lube in the compressor also. I am actually going to use another type refrigerant called DuraCool out of Canada. They say less pressure and takes a lot less to fill the system also.
 http://www.duracool.com/
I had hoped to get it going this week but electrical bugs have kept me from getting the engine going. This car sat for 26 years.
I cannot say good or bad about the duracool when engine is running I will vac the system and fill and see how it goes.
BTW po had painted all the hoses on my system and I stripped off back to the original hoses and lines so it looks much better.
[Image: 100_2521.jpg]

[Image: DSC_2423.jpg]

temporary image upload

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??
Tongue
David
  Reply
#3
Any suggestions on how to flush the system with a A/C Flushing solvent?

I suppose the best thing to do is to disconnect the lines from the dryer, make one the inlet and the other the outlet. Put the outlet into a bucket or something, and Use my transfer pump to pump the flushing fluid thru the system. I just dont know if the compressor needs to be turned while flushing it or not.

As far as a flushing agent goes, Napa has a quart for $13 which is alot cheaper than some other places I have seen.

[Image: 2151242.jpg]

So to do the flush, I guess I should remove the compressor first, and drain out all the oil. Then put it back on, and connect the lines, then run the flushing solvent thru. I dont have my air compressor hooked up since this house has no 220 outlet in the garage, so I am hoping I can just pump it thru with a hand pump.

How much flushing solvent should I run thru it?
  Reply
#4
A word about Duracool, it is a very pure and dry isobutane/propane mixture. So, use caution when connecting, charging, removing, etc. No open flames, smoking, sparks and so on allowed. It is prohibited for use in motor vehicles in some countries due to this. I believe that is ridiculous, the small amount of it that is used is insignificant compared to the potential fire/explosive hazard of a tank of gasoline. Even antifreeze sprayed onto a hot exhaust manifold has the potential of igniting.

It has a much lower ozone depleting/global warming potential than R134a while being more efficient, for those that are concerned about such issues.


“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
--Albert Einstein
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#5
I took a picture of my expansion valve. I was just wondering what this canister with the blue cap on it is. and what the silver air line is going to the intake. Is the canister some kind of filter?

[Image: Expansion_valve.jpg]
  Reply
#6
jowens1126, our era Mustangs used the block type expansion valve as in your illustration. Later Ford products in the late 70's transitioned to a POA type valve. The device with a probe on it is the thermostat for the evaporator temperature control.
With a lot of half a$$ repairs done by PO's and make believe mechanics, your best bet is to treat your system like a R-134 conversion was never done.
Our shop used FJC conversion parts since Ford did not offer any R-134 conversion parts. A label was always applied under hood indicating the R-134 conversion and the new charge levels. The lines were never replaced unless defective. Since the R-134 did operate at a higher pressure the systems were charged at 75-80% of the original R-12 charge. The system used a PAG type oil and the receiver/dryer was changed since it was basically the filter on our style cars unlike the orifice type on new model cars. After a system flush and new R-134 and PAG oil compatible o rings were installed the system was charged and unless there were other component problems, you had cold air.
I'm sure others here have already been through this process and can add more info than I have.
Good luck with your project!
Steve

No Officer...I really don't know how fast I was going, my speedometer stopped at 140!
  Reply
#7
jowens1126, I am a slow "Hunt and Peck" typist. So by the time I finished my previous post I had missed your question about the canister.
That is what Ford called a fuel vapor storage canister and has a charcoal type material inside. The rubber line running from it attaches to a metal line that runs to the fuel tank to a fuel vapor valve in the top of the tank. The corrugated hose attaches to a stub on the side of the air cleaner. The canister stores fuel vapor from the tank and when the engine is started the vapor is pulled through the air cleaner into the combustion chamber where it is burnt.
Early stages of emissions control. If folks back then only had an ideal of what would be on these cars in 2017!
Steve

No Officer...I really don't know how fast I was going, my speedometer stopped at 140!
  Reply
#8
Thank you for that Information Steve, Im also going to get the conversion label and place it in the proper place. That way everyone will know in the future.

I was wondering if thats what that canister was. Im very familiar with 90's Era EFI Fords, but this is my first ever 70's carburated vehicle.

As far as the conversion goes, Which fittings have O-rings? Do they all? I suppose I need the Green O rings like came with my compressor for my 94 bronco. I will have to go look and see if theres a O-ring kit somewhere, and the other parts so I can put together a part order today.

Parts,
O-ring kit - I think I still have them all from my Bronco A/C kit. I think they are all the same size.

Dryer

Flushing Solvent

2 cans 134a


I also found these service ports on Ebay, Theres a #8 and a #10. I suppose one is the high side and one the low side?
#8 size
http://www.ebay.com/itm/YORK-ROTOLOCK-A-...4891b668a0
[Image: s_l1600.jpg]

#10 size
http://www.ebay.com/itm/YORK-ROTOLOCK-A-...5d5211bec2

[Image: s_l1600.jpg]


So What is the normal charge for R-12? (1.5lbs??) How much 134a should I put in the system? (70-80% of R12 charge?)
  Reply
#9
got all my parts on order for the next set of projects.  Looks like next weekend will be a busy one.  I still havnt worked on it at all today, but I have made lots of progress cleaning out the garage and clearing my work bench and putting all my tools back in the tool box.  So that is a big plus.  It was such a mess in there from the last 2 months when I had my bronco interior completely removed to rewire everything.  That was a major undertaking.  So hopefully now that the afternoon thunderstorm is done, I can get back in there and finish up the garage and start on my seat belt conversion.

I watched a few videos on A/C system flushing and I think I know what Im doing now.  You cant flush the compressor, so I will just pull it and suspend it over a bucket overnight and let all the old oil drain out of it.  Give it a few turns by hand to help dislodge all the oil out periodically and that should be good.  Then I have to pull the condenser and I will flush it separately.  I am going to have to find a way to hook my compressor back up, so I may have to go to lowes and get some 10/12 romex and make me a stout extension cord so I can plug it into the dryer outlet in the laundry room off the garage.  That will get me in business again.  Then I will take all of the hoses off and flush them one at a time, replace all the O-rings, and try to get all the paint off of them.  Then I will flush the evaporator and I should be good to go.  I am going to just replace the expansion valve since they are cheap.

I also ordered a flushing gun and flushing solvent. Should be a fun project.

So That should get me back in the cooling game again.  I already have a vacuum pump and Hose set so I will be all set.
  Reply
#10
(08-12-2017, 01:52 PM)jowens1126 Wrote: Thank you for that  Information Steve,  Im also going to get the conversion label and place it in the proper place.  That way everyone will know in the future.

I was wondering if thats what that canister was.  Im very familiar with 90's Era EFI Fords, but this is my first ever 70's carburated vehicle.  

As far as the conversion goes, Which fittings have O-rings?  Do they all?  I suppose I need the Green O rings like came with my compressor for my 94 bronco.  I will have to go look and see if theres a O-ring kit somewhere, and the other parts so I can put together a part order today.

Parts,
O-ring kit - I think I still have them all from my Bronco A/C kit.  I think they are all the same size.

Dryer

Flushing Solvent

2 cans 134a


I also found these service ports on Ebay, Theres a #8 and a #10.  I suppose one is the high side and one the low side?
#8 size
http://www.ebay.com/itm/YORK-ROTOLOCK-A-...4891b668a0
[Image: s_l1600.jpg]

#10 size
http://www.ebay.com/itm/YORK-ROTOLOCK-A-...5d5211bec2

[Image: s_l1600.jpg]


So What is the normal charge for R-12? (1.5lbs??) How much 134a should I put in the system? (70-80% of R12 charge?)

You can get the o-rings at any parts house the standard assortment has all you need and more. I found some corrosion inside lines and cleaned with round wire brushes. Right or wrong I cleaned mine with soap and water and let dry before install. The Duracool works at lower pressure is one reason I am trying it. You do not need to change the lines. I also cleaned all the connections with fine steel wool to give the o-rings a good place to seal. I got engine running this afternoon may put a temp gas tank on and do the air conditioner tomorrow with the Duracool. I will post if I do.

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??
Tongue
David
  Reply


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