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'73 Mach1 made in Mexico
#51
I assume that no one of the community believes me (all are thinking that all dealers are criminals and liars) but I tell the truth, believe me!
I invite all of you to make up your own mind about that car.
The VIN is NOT allowed to publish. It´s data protection. Sorry!
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#52
honestman;267512 Wrote:I assume that no one of the community believes me (all are thinking that all dealers are criminals and liars) but I tell the truth, believe me!
I invite all of you to make up your own mind about that car.
The VIN is NOT allowed to publish. It´s data protection. Sorry!

Okay, don't tell bulls..t.
Drive or bring the car to " The Mustang Garage" in Belgium, this men is an expert... he tell you the truth about that Mustang.
If you are NOT the first owner than you can't tell the truth


http://www.mustanggarage.be/

devil
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#53
First - "Fair and honest" are unfortunately usually highly subjective terms.

As for the shock tower brace being bent - that was most likely caused by collision/accident. It should have been repaired correctly when other respective damage was repaired. If not - then sub-standard repair was made.
That in itself puts ALL damage and repairs on this car in question. If there are pictures of original damage it helps to determine better if other repairs were restored correctly. People selling cars are promoting the cars to get the best price. Sometimes they are willing to negotiate and sometimes they are not. And both parties (potential buyers and sellers) are fully able to voice their own opinions of any observations on the car. No one has the right to quench any such discussion.
Both of these members who traveled very long distance to view this car are current owners and both knowledgeable concerning 1971-3 Mustangs. If the seller feels they have made mis-statements on the actual condition of the car, he is able to support his opinions by taking pictures and videos to help address each concern. Otherwise this is simply a case where a potential buyer finds there is more wrong with this car than he is willing to accept and/or pay for under the previously negotiated price. Another potential buyer may be willing to accept in the as-is condition. Basically - buyer beware. Sometimes repairs can equal MUCH more than any potential value of the cars. If that is no concern and you will derive some of that value in just the ownership alone - then you are OK. But again - buyer beware.

That outside appraisal from the previously mentioned Mustang shop would go a long way to substantiate the current value and condition of the car. But that in itself would not replace the actual inspection by the potential buyer before purchase...

I know a lot of what I said is just plain 'ole common sense but I wanted to try and cover all the bases.

respectfully,

Ray

1971 Boss 351  
1972 Q code 4 speed convertible 
1971 Mustang Sportsroof  351-2V FMX 
1973 Mach 1 (parts car)
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#54
Honestman, just as I wrote you by mail today, just remove a bit the carpet, then touch the floor pan, you will see. I looked under the car, you protect underneath with blaxon or so, it looks nice and solid, but the rust is coming first from under the carpet, and you cannot see from under the car, I learned from my previous cars.

The tail light panel is corroded all around the lights, it's true. I have picture if needed.

Open the doors, on each side you have black piece of plastic, small grilles, remove them, look inside the quarter panel, you will see if it's clean or not.

Too me this car was damaged, the frame, front, has been welded.

Maybe you have not seen all of that, the car looks very nice and clean, but when you dig a bit...

Mustang, beer and rock'nroll
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#55
honestman;267511 Wrote:Sorry, but pls. keep fair and honest:
Car is as I described to both of you!
There is definately NO rust! Floor pan is NOT damaged, even NOT the tail lights. The welding job was Okay.
You were not able to verify, because you did not look underneath (you could have asked us to put car on a hydraulic ramp).
You know (I told you) that the car just got new TÜV. No TÜV with any lack!
Your Mustang friend Tim seems not the expert he wanted to be. My mechanic could tell him the truth of some stupid things he wanted to fool us.
True is that this Mustang is not in no.1 condition, but I never told so. Of course there are some minor things to do and the paint is not perfect (I told both of you).
Sure for the price of just 17.000.- Euro.
If you attended a Mach1 in perfect condition for 17T€, you were dreaming (or thinking to find a stupid dealer who does not know about prices).
We have a good reputation in the market; it makes no sense for us to tell somebody fairy-tales.

I assume that no one of the community believes me (all are thinking that all dealers are criminals and liars) but I tell the truth, believe me!
I invite all of you to make up your own mind about that car.

Dear Mr. Honestman (I forgot your real name and you have still not introduced yourself to the forum as it should be)!

Your words are full of impertinence and simply not the truth. Your name is a farce!

YOU are not even knowing anything about your own cars to sell them! You had to call your mechanic who told me that he made the floor pans from underneath but not from inside. And that's all! Do you mean by that that he is an expert or even you? Congratulations on your self-confidence which is even bigger than Mt. Everest. Even a blind man could see that this car is not even worth half of the money your are willing to sell it for. Your are now frustrated that you had bought such a car for perhaps too much money trusting the words of your "agent" in Mexico and having now the problem to find someone dumb enough buying this car.

I don't wanted to get into much detail about our visit to you before but now I have to! We had trusted your words and we asked a lot before! But what we have seen there in real was not anything near to your words you had given us on the numerous telephone-calls. And we expected not a perfect car - our expectations were far from that. It is not the first car we saw from that years! Now to the obvious:

The car car rusts from inside to outside. All over the folds around the doors and the trunk lid there is coming rust through. Rust is normally of brown color - you know!?! Bubbles on the underside folds of the door. Here and there bondo which cover the folds completely. Bondo on the lower parts of the quarter panels which had some repair in the past. Bubbles are visible on the rockerpanels under the b-pillar. The back on the right had a hit, the right rear light frame was bended inside, also the trunk floor. Badly welded trunk floor on the left. The rear right quarter panel is bended out a little because of the hit. None of the rear lights fit right, their frames are almost gone, the right side of the rear panel is warped. Cracks on the upper side of the rear panel are badly hided. The front grill area is badly reconstructed by fiberglass-bondo, metal weldings and so on. The underside of the plastic-grill has gone. The car had a obvious hit on the right of the front - you could even see that on the bumper! Bad weldings everywhere on the frame, weldings also on the firewall and here and there you see a lot of welding wire. Thats not a sign of high-end-work... The front spring covers on the outside of the shock towers had some mysterius welding too - finger-thick steel-pieces to stabilize them from... whatever. The right bumper attachment was bended as a sign of a hit too. I know that traces! The inner side of the front hood begins to rust on the latch part etc. By lifting the carpet or the backseat you will see some old newspapers glued on the floor with something and over there some aluminum sheets also glued on. And in between some nice and round rust holes! But no, "honestman", that's nothing to mention on the phone, nooo, never... And you knew that or at least your mechanic to protect you, I am sorry... After asking specifically he had to admit that he only re-made the floors from the underside and he better had to left the inner floors and not detach the aluminum foil he knew of. He could eventually destroy something more... And you were standing exactly a few centimeters nearby him and listening to his beautiful words too!

Is that enough to constitute us still as liars?!? And these are only the baddest and most obvious things. Not all the other incorrect and missing things on the car. I wanted to be polite and not to take ANY photos of these things to not spread bad things all over the www about you. But that was perhaps a mistake! Now YOU spread bad things about us all over the world! Yes, you are right - the underside of the car was made nice and you covered all with a nice looking thick layer of black tar. But thats all... And no - we are not in need of writing down the VIN of that car anywhere in the web! It even has none on the dashboard...

If the car got TÜV in Germany that has nothing to say! To get TÜV it has to run, to brake, not to leak anywhere (but on the rear axle, I forgot) and not to show too big rust holes. That's all. Does this make the whole story better?

None of the "wanna-be-experts" as you named me would buy any car which looks like that except it would be perhaps a Boss 351 or a 429 CJ of that 3-year-era and he knows that he would have many trouble.

And now every more word is too much. Get out of this forum and take your chance elsewhere! I wonder if you could find any sleep by how you treat honest people...

The best on this trip was to meet such a nice guy as Manu and his brother in real - it was a pleasure. Sad there where no better circumstances...

Tim

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly Angel
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#56
honestman;267511 Wrote:Your Mustang friend Tim seems not the expert he wanted to be. My mechanic could tell him the truth of some stupid things he wanted to fool us.

There are no 'experts' on '71-'73 Mustangs, mostly because the cars are 43 years old. The closest thing to 'experts' on those model year Mustangs are the knowledgeable people at this site.

honestman;267511 Wrote:I assume that no one of the community believes me (all are thinking that all dealers are criminals and liars) but I tell the truth, believe me!
I invite all of you to make up your own mind about that car.

No assumptions are being made, however if the one responsible for repairs had taken any kind of time to research the proper shape and size of the hood black-out paint, more credibility toward the level of repairs might be considered (this is based on one of the pictures in your advertisement). It's all in the details, after all. Cutting corners is a sign of lacking concern for the end-product.

We, as part of this '71-'73 Mustang Community, are indeed interested in getting ALL of the details right, and therefore are more in-tune with the truths found in these cars - many of us having restored them from non-functional rusty piles of junk. Your mechanic, while I'm sure he's competent and honest, is most likely not anything close to being an expert on '71-'73 Mustangs. In fact, I'd be willing to wager this was probably the first '73 Mustang he's ever seen. But, I don't know... and that's my point. We don't know, so we're not passing judgment.

However, Manu and Tim a respected members of this community, and we will naturally side with them... unless you have some pictorial evidence to dispute their findings. Manu simply said that you were unable to make a deal because the car was not as you said it was. Beyond that, no insults were inferred. For you to come in and start in with the insults is not helping your cause... and will most likely result in you getting banned if you continue. If you would like information on how to properly restore the car, please let us know - we'll be happy to offer advice. Otherwise, I recommend letting it go and find another buyer after you fix your car.

Basically, if the vehicle is not up to the standards they've established based on information found and provided by collaborating with informed people at this website, then our advice is to not buy it. That is also based on the experiences of site members having bought badly restored and/or maintained vehicles, and sharing what to watch out for. Some of us have been burned and don't want to see others suffer the same.

Simple as that.

Eric

[Image: mach1sig2.gif]
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#57
Manu,

here is one radio delete plate like which the one in the Mexican had to look like...

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-parts...dio-delete

Tim

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly Angel
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