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73 alignment saga
#1
They played with it for 2 hours, the tech was great, showed me the issues.

FIrst off, he is sure the steering box being loose is causing havoc.

Second, drivers caster is bizarre, seems out of whack. he got it the best he could.

Lastly, the eccentric bolt on the drivers side is not seating into that metal peice that is welded to the subframe. It actually spinning over it, looks like the metal peice is worn and its no longer holding it in place correctly.

Sigh...

So, first I would like your opinion on the steering box that Mustangsunlimited has for our cars, the PS version. I dont want to do any send in service, being in Canada, that will be at least a month before I get it back and able to drive again, summer is short up here.

Second, what on earth do I do about that metal peice on the subframe that centres the camber bolt?
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#2
If the metal shoulders are getting pushed away as the alignment cam is turned I would guess tht the control arm bushing is 'wedged" in place and not moving with the cam bolt. Something has to give so the metal shoulders are. Get the bushing (lower control arm pivot) freed up under the car so the arm can move in and out. Straighten the shoulders, align and tighten the bolt. Just my thoughts. Good luck.
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#3
Muswagon;234626 Wrote:They played with it for 2 hours, the tech was great, showed me the issues.

FIrst off, he is sure the steering box being loose is causing havoc.

Second, drivers caster is bizarre, seems out of whack. he got it the best he could.

Lastly, the eccentric bolt on the drivers side is not seating into that metal peice that is welded to the subframe. It actually spinning over it, looks like the metal peice is worn and its no longer holding it in place correctly.

Sigh...

So, first I would like your opinion on the steering box that Mustangsunlimited has for our cars, the PS version. I dont want to do any send in service, being in Canada, that will be at least a month before I get it back and able to drive again, summer is short up here.

Second, what on earth do I do about that metal peice on the subframe that centres the camber bolt?

The flat portion on the control arm mounting bolt that aligns the eccentrics is stripped and causing the issue you are having. You need Moog kit K8243A this kit is complete with left and right bolts,eccentrics and nuts. Good luck.
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#4
Appreciate the part number, for $15 I am crazy not to try.

Anyone care to weigh in on the steering box question?

On toe in vs toe out. At both alignment shops, the way the heads that clamp to the wheels work, no actual measurement is taken. When I measure on the ground, only measuring 1/3 of the way up the tire I am showing .25 inch toe out which would more than explain the cars desire to injure me. When I stand looking down at each front fender at the front wheels, there is definately toe out, even accounting for the fenders tapering in as you head toward the car.

Is there a translation difference between actual measurements on old cars vs new equipment??
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#5
Maybe I'm missing something, but it sounds to me like the alignment technician has no 'practical knowledge' of how to align the car, beyond punching make and model data into the computer. Pretty much just like those parts guys that can't figure out "if it's not in the computer, look it up in one of those giant books the old guys use." Sure, he'll get you the part you need under optimal conditions, but anything outside of the box (literally) isn't going to happen without some kind of intervention.

Pretty sad when a simple tape measure could be more effective than a super-duper computer system.

Shootself

Eric

[Image: mach1sig2.gif]
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#6
I had the very same thought!
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#7
Your post is unclear. You may be measuring correctly, but your description makes it hard to tell , so I decided to add this

This is negative camber / ________________ \ When viewed from the front of the car

This is toe in when viewed from above the car /__________________\

Positive camber will make the car very unstable and prone to darting with every bump. More positive more unstable

Excessive amounts of any of the above will tear up your tires quickly.

[Image: 1_01_07_15_8_53_18.png]

"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!
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#8
Jeff73Mach1;234755 Wrote:This is toe in when viewed from above the car /__________________\

Positive camber will make the car very unstable and prone to darting with every bump. More positive more unstable

Excessive amounts of any of the above will tear up your tires quickly.

^ ^ ^
Front of Car
/__________________\
Toe-In


^ ^ ^
Front of Car
\ __________________ /
Toe-Out



There - fixed it for ya. thumb

Toe-in will help the car track straight. Toe-out will make it harder to track straight, and have more responsive steering. But you're right - only small amounts are needed for big results. That's why the factory spec for toe-in is such a small number, with a small window for acceptable tolerance.

Eric

[Image: mach1sig2.gif]
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#9
Sorry if I was unlcear. Was not referring to camber when I was looking at the wheels from above fender, looking at what way the wheel was actually pointing.

When I measured the toe, the front of tire was .25 inches wider than the rear, so toe out. The camber looks to be bang on if not slightly negative. The caster is a mess, something must be tweaked.

My ultimate question is then how can the shop show toe in, when there is actually toe out?

To be clear-er lol..... I was standing on either side of the car looking down at the front wheels, not in front or back of car.
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#10
Because of the crazy treads of the TSX Super Swampers on my Jeep, I've learned to just bite the bullet and pull the front tires to measure the front edge of the rotor against the back edge of the rotor. Of course, that's a lot easier to do accurately on the Jeep since it's a solid front axle - so jacking it up by the axle and pulling off its wheels does not affect camber, caster, or toe.

My point is that considering how little the window is for tolerance (less than a half-inch to either side of 0-degrees, you need a consistent, "hard" measuring point on front and back of the wheel hub - I recommend the rotor, since it's consistent to both side of the car, as well as front and back of the wheel hub.

Eric

[Image: mach1sig2.gif]
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