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72 is in for body and paint work
#1
Well my father and I made the trip from Memphis to Atlanta to drop off the 72 for body and paint work. We chose this past weekend as we stopped in Talladega on the way back for the Sprint Cup race. Good race with great weather.

I am nervous about the final quote for the body and paint work. I had the car in Atlanta ( at a different shop) earlier this year for the metal work to be done. The guy came with great references from industry experts and private parties. He sends Goodmarks car to SEMA every year. When my new body guy at Mustang Central saw the car in person for the first time this weekend he pointed out several things that only an experienced body person would know. I on the other hand do not know bodywork. The quarters are not mounted correctly to blend in with the curve of the rear bumper, the driver quarter has a stress depression in the lower section behind the rear wheel. He said some of the work looks good, but some looked "poopy." I am sure we all have a similiar stories of spending several thousands of dollars and not getting what you paid for. Well the car will be loaded on his rack today for a thorough going over. I have been sick to my stomach ever since I dropped the car off concerned about what the final quote will be. I had planned on a high side number he shared with me from viewing many photos and discussing the car in person and over email. With two kids and family expenses right now I don't have several more thousand dollars above the high side estimate I was using. I somehow see my completion date of 2014 slipping away.

If everyone says a little prayer for me to keep the estimate to what was originally shared I would GREATLY appreciate it. The car is in Atlanta for now, I may be making another trip to get it next weekend if the quote is too high. I am keeping my fingers crossed and hopeing for good mojo on this one. I want it done right, and I just cannot see myself doing the bodywork to get it to the level I desire. Once the bodywork is done, I got the rest and am confident I can deliver a concourse car in 2014.

KEEPING HOPE ALIVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BKDunha
72 Mach 1 H-Code (Concourse driven restoration)
67 S-Code Factory GT with 4-Spd

68 Mercury Cyclone (Pro-Street project)
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#2
Good luck! Let us know how it turns out.

Steve



[Image: 25yvyp3.jpg]
  Reply
#3
Wishing you the VERY best on that Brian!

Based on my experience with the Grandé, I am going to have EVERY detail nailed down on the Mach 1 BEFORE any work is done. I think it sometimes come down to a "meeting of the minds", making sure that both parties are COMPLETELY on the same page.

I, too, was not TOTALLY satisfied with what I got for the money I paid on the Grandé. Even though I had a pretty well spelled out contract, the guy who did the work for me was a "Friend" and I got sucked into the problems he was allegedly having getting the Mustang "right." I ended up spending an additional 2K beyond what we had settled on in the contract. I would not normally have let him off the hook, but he was a "Friend" who had been begging me for years to let him do the work. In fairness, some of the "gremlins" were for things we had not considered in the initial assessment of what was to be done. But, as the First Lady has reminded me, that was his job to quote a price for what he could do the job. Live and Learn.

Again, I wish you the best but would caution you to get a FIRM estimate before they start the work. You should not have to live on "pins and needles" wondering how much it is going to cost you.

This is supposed to be FUNSmile!

BT

Do the RIGHT thing.
  Reply
#4
Best of luck

[Image: 2rr7aiv.png]

Just cruising along minding our own business when BAM!!! The LAWS show up.
  Reply
#5
This is supposed to be FUN!

Well said Cobra!!
  Reply
#6
bkdunha;40667 Wrote:Well my father and I made the trip from Memphis to Atlanta to drop off the 72 for body and paint work. We chose this past weekend as we stopped in Talladega on the way back for the Sprint Cup race. Good race with great weather.

I am nervous about the final quote for the body and paint work. I had the car in Atlanta ( at a different shop) earlier this year for the metal work to be done. The guy came with great references from industry experts and private parties. He sends Goodmarks car to SEMA every year. When my new body guy at Mustang Central saw the car in person for the first time this weekend he pointed out several things that only an experienced body person would know. I on the other hand do not know bodywork. The quarters are not mounted correctly to blend in with the curve of the rear bumper, the driver quarter has a stress depression in the lower section behind the rear wheel. He said some of the work looks good, but some looked "poopy." I am sure we all have a similiar stories of spending several thousands of dollars and not getting what you paid for. Well the car will be loaded on his rack today for a thorough going over. I have been sick to my stomach ever since I dropped the car off concerned about what the final quote will be. I had planned on a high side number he shared with me from viewing many photos and discussing the car in person and over email. With two kids and family expenses right now I don't have several more thousand dollars above the high side estimate I was using. I somehow see my completion date of 2014 slipping away.

If everyone says a little prayer for me to keep the estimate to what was originally shared I would GREATLY appreciate it. The car is in Atlanta for now, I may be making another trip to get it next weekend if the quote is too high. I am keeping my fingers crossed and hopeing for good mojo on this one. I want it done right, and I just cannot see myself doing the bodywork to get it to the level I desire. Once the bodywork is done, I got the rest and am confident I can deliver a concourse car in 2014.

KEEPING HOPE ALIVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
B..YOU SHOULD BE NERVOUS...As you know I have always tried to be helpful to the board & members here. When you had the structural work done I had given you some advice after the fact. I also tend not to candy coat the facts & call things as I see them from my many years of experience of being in the trade, I knew from looking at the pictures & by what you paid that there was no way that job was done a 110%..The bottom line is that the MAJORITY of shops that call themselves PRO's aren't & don't deliver the type of product you & I expect nor do they even complete a project in the time frame quoted. I don't care how many cars this shop has done..(if we talking about the same shop Mustang Central ) I did a quick search..Found 1 better bbb compliant & found this compliant
(cut & paste)
"09/02/2011
Beware!! This business will steal your parts, charge you incredible labor rates, and make you feel like you got a deal. Expect to wait months, even years, to get your work done. The classic restoration business is scary enough for people looking for help with a prized possession. Rest assured Mustang Central is corrupt and shady!!
If you feel you HAVE to do business with these people, INVENTORY EVERYTHING YOU GIVE THEM, get independent value appraisals for every piece/part, and keep VERY close tabs on the work and the parts.Their website states they're happy to refer to previous customers?? Really? I bet they won't refer you to me or the (likely) dozens of others who have been completely exploited and ripped off by Alan Shepley. He's smarter than you, is better connected in the parts world than you, and he will use this to his every advantage against you. If you call him out on something you suspect is wrong, he will turn on you on A DIME! Be ready to come back with a trailer for your car and parts, and the police.
I hope the new information highway will allow this to get to as many people as possible."

B.. I'm going to give you some more advice. I will be more than happy to review the estimate look at pictures etc & confirm what ever you need.
GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING !!!!
GET SPECIFIC TIME FRAMES for completion of the required steps & THE AMOUNT OF PAYMENT TO BE MADE when each of those steps are completed ALL IN WRITING !!! There should also be a penalty for not completing a task in the required time frame with a grace period of 10 days (As an example if say a quarter panel is to be replaced & they don't meet the deadline & 10 days has passed since that deadline then for each day after that $50.00 is removed from the final bill)
DO NOT!!!! UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE GIVE MORE THAN 10% OF THE TOTAL JOB FOR A DEPOSIT UP FRONT!!!!
DO NOT GIVE ALL THE PARTS TO THE SHOP UP FRONT !!!! GIVE THE SPECIFIC PARTS THAT ARE REQUIRED FOR THE STEP BEING DONE AS PER THE CONTRACT & PAYMENT COMPLETION DATE
GET REFERENCES GOING BACK AT LEAST 5 YEARS ! IF NOT AS FAR AS 10 WITH PHONE NUMBERS & CALL THE PEOPLE (Ask the shop for 20 references then you can pick from that) !!!! ASK HOW THE WORK HAS HELD UP & HOW LONG PAST THE PROMISED DELIVERY DATE THEY GOT THE CAR
ASK FOR A COPY OF THE INSURANCE FOR THE SHOP & THE PHONE NUMBER OF THE INSURANCE CO. CALL THEM (CONFIRM THEIR INSURANCE) & ASK IF ANY CLAIMS HAVE BEEN MADE IN THE LAST 5-10 YEARS & ASK IF THE PLACE BURNED DOWN OR IF YOUR CAR & OR PARTS ARE STOLEN OR DAMAGED WHAT WOULD THEY PAY OUT TO YOU.
You may think this is pretty extreme & I'm crazy but any quality reputable honest business person would have no problem with the above. This is your irreplaceable baby & no one but YOU is going to look out for your best interest. DO YOUR HOMEWORK !! I would hate to say I "told you so" & Just so you know In my shop I NEVER TOOK A DIME UP FRONT for a job..I was so confident in my work & work ethic ! To this day I still do that in my home improvement business. No money up front !


Scott




LOVE OF BEAUTY IS TASTE..THE CREATION OF BEAUTY IS ART
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#7
Great advice Scott.
  Reply
#8
Scott, I wish I had heard those things before I dropped off my 65 at a "reputable" mustang only body shop. It was a few thousand more than the original quote & contract amount. Then when they replaced the 4 engine bay panels that had the 4 VINs, they threw away all my VINs as well as my original door data plate! I was pissed. After I picked up my car they went out of business.

I don't take my cars to shops any more. This has forced me to learn body work. I have much to learn but I'll be damned if I go through that experience again. This is one reason I am so VERY thankful for you and your videos, that and your results amaze me (I.e. Yellow camaro).

[Image: 386_07_10_13_5_58_42.jpeg]
My Mustangs:
71 M-code Mach 1, Medium Blue/White Sport, 4R70W, 3L50, Factory Ram Air.
72 Q-code Mach 1, Pewter/Black Sport, 4-spd, 3L25.
65 Convertible, Britney Blue/White/White, more modified than original.
05 Convertible, Legend Lime/Tan/Tan, future classic??
  Reply
#9
Don65Stang;40712 Wrote:Scott, I wish I had heard those things before I dropped off my 65 at a "reputable" mustang only body shop. It was a few thousand more than the original quote & contract amount. Then when they replaced the 4 engine bay panels that had the 4 VINs, they threw away all my VINs as well as my original door data plate! I was pissed. After I picked up my car they went out of business.

I don't take my cars to shops any more. This has forced me to learn body work. I have much to learn but I'll be damned if I go through that experience again. This is one reason I am so VERY thankful for you and your videos, that and your results amaze me (I.e. Yellow camaro).
D..I try to pass on & educate the members what I learned in my over 25 years of the business..I have seen & heard it all ! Even I got burned once..It's hard not to get caught up in the "DREAM" unfortunately there are way to many "hacks" out there who can talk a good story & do have cars they have done that the owners will tell you "CAME out GREAT" because the owner don't know any better. the restoration business is a different animal than the collision business. The biggest thing is making sure your covered if something happens. In a regular collision business when you have an accident usually your car is insured when you bring it in & the insurance you carry pays for the repair. In a restoration business most of the cars come in unregistered without insurance on them. So if something happens MOST of the time the insurance check would go to the owner of the shop..You have to HOPE he then in turn pays you ! Not a good scenario. I heard of a shop in the late 90's who had about 8 restorations going.. Took all the cars to a remote location..Filed a claim that his shop was broken into..Was payed off..Then closed his doors without paying off any of the customers..Then turned around & parted out the cars ! Your lucky you got your car back before this guy closed his doors & took the car with him ! That's why it's so important to CALL a shops insurance co & find out how they pay out if something happens. If your not covered that way then it's imperative to get a rider or what ever it takes to put insurance on your car while it's at the shop..This way YOU get payed directly from your carrier if something happens. I don't blame you for not taking your car to shops..To have quality work done is expensive & The experience you had left a sour taste in your mouth. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying ALL shops are like this..There are a handful of very good reputable shops..But it takes homework & due diligence to find them. It took me a whole 2 minutes to find 2 complaints on that shop B is looking in to. I didn't even really dig deep ! Cost overruns on these projects happen it's the nature of the beast..But it needs to be spelled out how it's handled in the contract. There is a big difference in an ESTIMATE VS A CONTRACT. ALWAYS,ALWAYS HAVE a CONTRACT Never sign or go off an ESTIMATE. An estimate is an educated guess & leaves you open to problems. A contract spells out EXACTLY what is to be done & how much you will pay to have it done & when it will be completed.


LOVE OF BEAUTY IS TASTE..THE CREATION OF BEAUTY IS ART
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#10
All thank you for your advice. Scott, your advice has been taken to heart. In fact, I did ask him about the BBB statement and his response was that the guy brought in several parts and did not have an inventory of what he brought. When he had completed some of the work on the car the guy got cold feet and found another shop that quoted him a cheaper price. When the guy came to get his car he looked around the shop and saw several parts he stated were his, but Alan commented they were not. I have contacted five references one being John Ford the former editor of Mustang Monthly. Alan has worked on four cars for John. Your words are exactly correct in obtaining a contract and that is my expectation. I have inventoried every item I brought to him and both of us have a copy. I am trying to do my homework as much as I can and everything you provide is very appreciated. I do have the car registered in TN and I have it insured through my collector car insurer as parts. They wrote an agreed value policy on the body and parts not as a complete car. One this I have omitted is confirming his insurance coverage. Once I find out the number we will see were we go from there. If it is acceptable I will request information regarding his insurance coverage.

It is no big suprise that most if not all of us have a story regarding our restoration bad experiences. I hope, and will strive to avoid this experience from becoming one for me. Time shall only tell and the input of everyone here helps to keep me a bit more cautious rather than getting wrapped up in the excitement of seeing my dream car come true.

BKDunha
72 Mach 1 H-Code (Concourse driven restoration)
67 S-Code Factory GT with 4-Spd

68 Mercury Cyclone (Pro-Street project)
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