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71-73 2019 MCA Judging Rules
#21
Not here to bash the MCA. I've been a card carrying member since 1976. But as in any organization, politics is alive and well. I've had a fair share of what David has experienced  with several different Mustangs I have shown over the years. I can say with certainty that the 71-73's were shown about as much love and respect as the Mustang II's !  Vague rules and loose interpretation by who ever the Judge happened to be that day was the norm. The majority of the printed rules were a result of what was on  some higher echelon Judges car (No names but most know who)!
I am glad to see that almost 50 years later they have finally addressed the issue of the which model 71-72's had single or dual exhaust and what the qualifier was for chrome exhaust tips! whistling
Ford was in the business of mass producing cars, trucks and parts, not show cars. So there ARE going to be variances at many different levels on any of these cars. There were always multiple suppliers to provide Ford with the hundreds of thousands of parts and fasteners it took to "Screw" one of these vehicles together. Agree that with proper documentation such as David has for his 73 Mach1, he should not receive ANY resistance to things that are being called wrong on his car that was PRODUCTION installed. With the documentation he has I don't see where the dealer installed items should even be a problem.
I do feel that with the "New Blood" in the club that they are now more receptive to looking at legitimate questions from members on the validity of different rules.

 I really appreciate having the availability of the Marti reports for our cars. They contain information other cars collectors only wished they had access to for their vehicles. I have found errors in both the reports for my Mach1’s. The Marti states that both my cars have bumper guards which was not an option for any 71-72 Mach1.  Neither of my cars have ever had bumper guards.

The Eminger report is one of the copies of the actual invoice that was sent  along with the car when delivered by Motor Convoy. It contains base price and production installed options and was how the dealer was invoiced. If it isn't on the invoice it didn't leave the assembly plant with it. Since that is an original Ford produced document, I would put more faith on it being correct than anything else being offered from anyone. As nice as the Marti report is, it is not a Ford generated document, but is a compilation of what Marti's staff interprets as being on the vehicle.
Accessories were the Cash Cow for Dealers and aftermarket installers (and still is now). So a lot of Ford and after market items found their way onto our four wheel friends. If installed before sold, dealers would add a Addendum label listing items added to the vehicle since it was against federal law to alter the original or  Monroney Sticker.

Steve

No Officer...I really don't know how fast I was going, my speedometer stopped at 140!
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#22
(01-12-2019, 02:42 PM)secluff Wrote: Not here to bash the MCA. I've been a card carrying member since 1976. But as in any organization, politics is alive and well. I've had a fair share of what David has experienced  with several different Mustangs I have shown over the years. I can say with certainty that the 71-73's were shown about as much love and respect as the Mustang II's !  Vague rules and loose interpretation by who ever the Judge happened to be that day was the norm. The majority of the printed rules were a result of what was on  some higher echelon Judges car (No names but most know who)!
I am glad to see that almost 50 years later they have finally addressed the issue of the which model 71-72's had single or dual exhaust and what the qualifier was for chrome exhaust tips! whistling
Ford was in the business of mass producing cars, trucks and parts, not show cars. So there ARE going to be variances at many different levels on any of these cars. There were always multiple suppliers to provide Ford with the hundreds of thousands of parts and fasteners it took to "Screw" one of these vehicles together. Agree that with proper documentation such as David has for his 73 Mach1, he should not receive ANY resistance to things that are being called wrong on his car that was PRODUCTION installed. With the documentation he has I don't see where the dealer installed items should even be a problem.
I do feel that with the "New Blood" in the club that they are now more receptive to looking at legitimate questions from members on the validity of different rules.

 I really appreciate having the availability of the Marti reports for our cars. They contain information other cars collectors only wished they had access to for their vehicles. I have found errors in both the reports for my Mach1’s. The Marti states that both my cars have bumper guards which was not an option for any 71-72 Mach1.  Neither of my cars have ever had bumper guards.

The Eminger report is one of the copies of the actual invoice that was sent  along with the car when delivered by Motor Convoy. It contains base price and production installed options and was how the dealer was invoiced. If it isn't on the invoice it didn't leave the assembly plant with it. Since that is an original Ford produced document, I would put more faith on it being correct than anything else being offered from anyone. As nice as the Marti report is, it is not a Ford generated document, but is a compilation of what Marti's staff interprets as being on the vehicle.
Accessories were the Cash Cow for Dealers and aftermarket installers (and still is now). So a lot of Ford and after market items found their way onto our four wheel friends. If installed before sold, dealers would add a Addendum label listing items added to the vehicle since it was against federal law to alter the original or  Monroney Sticker.

Amen...

I have no intention of ever having my car judged by MCA. I used their's, and other pertinent Ford and Mustang group's information in helping me determine how I was going to finish my recent rotisserie restoration. I have seen too many times in person, Gold card judges missing key elements of what came on these car's. Why in the Boss classification do they have 69/70 judges looking at the '71 Boss? I had one of them tell me he knew very little about the '71's but had to judge it.... Glad I came 500 miles for that, said no one, ever... I have spent 40 year's around them, I don't have all the answers but I will certainly step up and and state my piece if i thought they were wrong... The MCA does try to do a good job, but they are and have always leaned towards the 64 1/2 to 70 car's. That's just the way it has been with the original Mustang owner's. I gave up trying to receive the proper recognition for our car's back in the 90's. I hope to do some shows in the Northern US in the next few year's, but the car will be in the "Display" Class... Who needs that aggravation...
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#23
runninpony 
Doesn't the Lois Emminger story go like this...She worked at Ford and they had asked her to shred all the invoices/documents that came across her desk and she asked her bosses at Ford if she could just take them home with her for safekeeping! Then a a guy like Kevin Marti approached her and purchased all of them for dirt cheap!?

71-73 Mustangs never die, they just go faster!
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#24
Not A T5 that is a good representation. She worked in the Accounting department and was given the task of getting these destroyed. She asked Ford management to retain the documents as she new several car collectors of T-birds and Mustangs and new the benefit these could offer collectors. Originally you would write Lois with payment and she would send you your report. I did this back in the 90's. With Louis's passing her family decided to sell the records to Marti and he now has the reports available.

I know there are many varying views of MCA. I am not going to take anyone's side, but state my involvement. With the historically limited factual data on the 71-73 models the MCA has made strides in setting a foundation of rules. As popularity continues to advance in these models I hope they will continue to revisit their rules and make factual and well substantiated changes. What concerns me is that one of the parties who judged my car at MCACN, Bob Perkins referenced as his 71-73 expert. In further follow-up with Perkins he corrected items and comments that were noted on my judging sheet as incorrect to be correct. I don't wear judging on my shoulder. I take the feedback compare it to what I know and research further once given feedback that I feel may be incorrect. All of us in this community have an opportunity to influence the rules for our class given the vast knowledge base we have here. If you are questioning a rule throw it out to the group here., gather your facts, compile the documentation and submit it to MCA. I have a contact if you have an item you would like to submit.

In any organized body there are going to be politics. I just let that roll off and make friendships with people who I enjoy being around.

BKDunha
72 Mach 1 H-Code (Concourse driven restoration)
67 S-Code Factory GT with 4-Spd

68 Mercury Cyclone (Pro-Street project)
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#25
I tend to avoid the concourse stuff and any kind of judging contests because I built my car the way I wanted it.  As someone else mentioned, what Ford built was mass-produced cars to be driven - not show cars.

I totally understand the drive and desire to restore back to factory specs, and can also understand wanting the recognition for that effort - beyond just the respect and admiration of 7173 fans.  The validation that one 'got it right' is valuable not only to the one responsible for the restoration, but also to the vehicle itself when it comes time to sell.  I totally get that.

My hang up is in me having pre-determined notions that the concourse crowd and MCA judges are typically overly nit-picky and think WAY too highly of themselves.  Is that the case?  I don't know, because I've never cared to put myself into a position to ever find out.  I tend to prefer the less formal car shows, as in the ones where there's a People's Choice and the participants vote for their favorites - it just feels more honest to me, as most car shows I go to are heavy with customs.  That, and after everything I've gone through getting my car back together, the last thing I want is someone crawling all over my car with a fine-tooth comb pointing out things I did wrong or that aren't correct... especially after I specifically told them it's not a 'restoration.'

But again, that's just me.

Thanks for sharing, BK - I can't wait to find out how bad Frank would fail an MCA event.  LOL!

Eric

[Image: mach1sig2.gif]
[+] 1 user Likes Mister 4x4's post
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#26
(01-08-2019, 12:23 PM)bkdunha Wrote: I have attached the 2019 revision to the 71-73 MCA Judging Rules.  The only highlighted changes noted were in Exhaust, Tires, and Paint.  I will review more thoroughly against the last posted rules for 2017 to see if I can identify any other changes. 

Hi from Heidelberg,

i read just this in the 71-73 MCA Judging Rules:
4. Undercarriage
j. Exhaust System
2v engine has single exhaust

But i read here:
https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/hmn/20...04941.html
Under the Point "Parts Prices"
Exhaust System, dual -- $ 225

My opinian was the dual exhaust a official accassory.

Or not  Huh  Chin  

Greetings from Germany
Klaus

[Image: 1_31_03_16_10_26_59.png]
The later you brake the longer you're fast. devil
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#27
Duck, there was not an option for a production installed dual exhaust or an over the counter accessory dual exhaust for the 71-73 Mustangs. Ford offered a dual exhaust kit available through the Dealer parts dept for the 65-69 Mustangs with the 289/302 only. Production installed dual exhaust for the 71-73's was only available with the 4bl versions of the 351 and 429 engines.
The parts prices shown in the Hemmings article are average aftermarket Prices in 2011 when the article was written. Before the Ford parts were discontinued in the 80's, a typical replacement cost for a inlet (H) pipe, two mufflers, two chrome tips and miscellaneous hardware for a 72 Q Mach 1  would be close to  $400.00

Steve

No Officer...I really don't know how fast I was going, my speedometer stopped at 140!
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