• 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
351C A/C upgrade to R134 (need help)
#1
Car 1973 351C 4V Convert w/ Factory A/C

Having problems w/ A/C and want to upgrade to R134. Looking at Classic Auto Air kit CAA6-124 (after talking w/ CAA).

1) Does any one have experience w/ this one?

2) What was the experience?

3)Was the kit complete? Did you have to make your own plates/adapters to install the compressor??

Rush
  Reply
#2
Are you wanting to retain stock appearance? If so, you should tell them that. If not I suppose a complete system designed for 134a should work better than an R12 system retrofitted with a higher capacity condenser. and changed to 134a I have tried the retrofit from r12 to 134a on three different vehicles. I was never happy with the cooling, 52 degree air at the vent, fan on high, monster fan on the condenser. Went back (a lot of work) to EXPENSIVE r12, same test set up, 39 degree air. To answer your question directly, I've not used one of their complete systems. I have used many of their OEM style parts with success. Good luck on the project.
As a side note, it is my opinion that the refrigerant replacement issue was concocted by a greedy industry and an ignorant government and imposed by a far too powerful agency. Sorry, I just had to say it.

Chuck
  Reply
#3
R134 will not cool as well as R12 as c9zx stated you get around 52 degree output from the system at the vent with the system on high. It will cool but not like R12.

now there isn't much to a R12 conversion. if your system is working now:
the condenser should be changed. New after market condensers are rated for R134 they are suppose to have denser veins to provide more surface area for heat exhange. you must change the Dryer that is on the side of the condenser, again these reproduction units are designed for R134. the compressor must be drained of mineral oil and replaced with R134 compatible oils, the York compressor is suppose to take 10 ounces of oil, but you want the compressor drained and see exactly how much oil comes out, there will be some left over oil in the system and you may need to flush it or go through a 2 step fill and vacuum process. the compressor gets new fittings for R134. R134 has a different expansion rate then R12 so they have to underfill the system because R134 expands more when it heats up, if you put the same pounds of 134 in a R12 system the compressor will lock up after a while.

the evaporator you don't have to replace and the lines you don't have to replace, if the expansion valve was working then leave it alone. when they test the system the big thing is making sure your evaporator freeze sensor is working to prevent the evaporator from icing up and locking up the compressor.

thats about it, they vacuum it for about 30-60 minutes to get as much out as possible then leave a gauge on the system to see if it is leaking, if not, new oil goes into the maintance line to the compressor from the mainfold, start the car, turn the system on and start filling it with R134 until it starts cooling then check pressures.

you can still get R12 if you really want and you can have the condensers fixed the dyer you can make due with the 134 versions they say it works.

but you didn't say the problem you are having.
any part of the system you can still get, the factory system is usually better then a retrofit.
  Reply
#4
Anyone here tried refrigerant alternatives like envirosafe?

Bright lime 72 Mach 1 with 351C 4V, with summit 600 carb(have a Holley too), Edelbrock dual-plane manifold, Hooker headers, 3 inch exhaust with flowmasters, 17 inch Eleanor wheels, FMX tranny, A/C, P/S, front disks and 350 rear gear. Drive it to work every day.
  Reply
#5
Just wait the new R1234 will be used pretty soon. Waiting to see what the prices will be then.
Jim

drive it like you stole it
  Reply
#6
I just (two weeks ago) completed the Classic Air conversion kit (new Sanden compressor, hoses, condenser) and am very happy with the outcome. I had the system completely flushed, evacuated, and charged with 134a at an A/C shop. It may not be quite as cold as the original York compressor with r12, but is keeping the car very cool even with the 100+ degree weather we have been having here in the DFW area. The folks at Classic Air were also very helpful and great to deal with. - just my experience.
Ron

'72 Mach 1, 351 4v CJ, Ram Air, C6, 3:50 Trak Lock, a/c, ps, pw, pb, frt disc, Wimbledon White w/Vermillion int.
  Reply
#7
rocro;192124 Wrote:I just (two weeks ago) completed the Classic Air conversion kit (new Sanden compressor, hoses, condenser) and am very happy with the outcome. I had the system completely flushed, evacuated, and charged with 134a at an A/C shop. It may not be quite as cold as the original York compressor with r12, but is keeping the car very cool even with the 100+ degree weather we have been having here in the DFW area. The folks at Classic Air were also very helpful and great to deal with. - just my experience.
Ron

Hey Ron, I'm assuming you had A/C before the Classic Auto Air install? If not (and it was a non-A/C car), how did you handle the idler pulley/belt set-up? My complete CAA replacement kit (mine was non-A/C) did not come with an idler pulley, belt specs, or anything for that portion of the install - everything else was absolutely perfect (as you said with your experience). I was advised to run the belt off the water pump/crank/power steering circuit and use the "string method" to figure out which belt fits.

As 72HCODE mentioned, converting to R134A from R12 is doable without major component change - you just need to ensure ALL of the R12 and compressor oil is purged and replace the dryer, expansion valve, and orfice tube (if equipped). The blending of R12 and old oil with the R134A and PAG oil will create a sludge that will lock up the compressor and ruin the rest of the system as well (guys I know in the biz call it "Black Death"). Once the system is purged of R12 and oil, running a system flush will be very helpful in preventing any kind of bad stuff. Changing out the fittings, as Dan suggested, is important because the R12 are 'screw-on' fittings, and the R134A are 'snap-on' fittings (like pneumatic tools).

Running the car during the charging process isn't always necessary - it depends on the A/C recharge/recovery system. My CAA system, even though it's not currently operational, is fully charged and ready to go for when I get the belt situation taken care of and finish wiring up the control unit.

Ralph - I haven't heard anything good or bad about Envirosafe stuff. I'm willing to bet that since it's not being touted as a Federally mandated replacement for R134A, it most likely doesn't work as well. (just a hunch)

Eric

[Image: mach1sig2.gif]
  Reply
#8
but you didn't say the problem you are having.
any part of the system you can still get, the factory system is usually better then a retrofit.
[/quote]


72HCODE,

when I turn on the A/C, the car becomes very sluggish. Also the car starts over-heating (normally does not go over 190-195F even in very hot weather)
IT goes over 210F...but I turn-off A/C right away....hardly use it even in hot weather.

Also, the car idles rough, lots of vibration vs shaking.

Rush
  Reply
#9
Mister 4x4;192139 Wrote:
rocro;192124 Wrote:I just (two weeks ago) completed the Classic Air conversion kit (new Sanden compressor, hoses, condenser) and am very happy with the outcome. I had the system completely flushed, evacuated, and charged with 134a at an A/C shop. It may not be quite as cold as the original York compressor with r12, but is keeping the car very cool even with the 100+ degree weather we have been having here in the DFW area. The folks at Classic Air were also very helpful and great to deal with. - just my experience.
Ron

Hey Ron, I'm assuming you had A/C before the Classic Auto Air install? If not (and it was a non-A/C car), how did you handle the idler pulley/belt set-up? My complete CAA replacement kit (mine was non-A/C) did not come with an idler pulley, belt specs, or anything for that portion of the install - everything else was absolutely perfect (as you said with your experience). I was advised to run the belt off the water pump/crank/power steering circuit and use the "string method" to figure out which belt fits.

As 72HCODE mentioned, converting to R134A from R12 is doable without major component change - you just need to ensure ALL of the R12 and compressor oil is purged and replace the dryer, expansion valve, and orfice tube (if equipped). The blending of R12 and old oil with the R134A and PAG oil will create a sludge that will lock up the compressor and ruin the rest of the system as well (guys I know in the biz call it "Black Death"). Once the system is purged of R12 and oil, running a system flush will be very helpful in preventing any kind of bad stuff. Changing out the fittings, as Dan suggested, is important because the R12 are 'screw-on' fittings, and the R134A are 'snap-on' fittings (like pneumatic tools).

Running the car during the charging process isn't always necessary - it depends on the A/C recharge/recovery system. My CAA system, even though it's not currently operational, is fully charged and ready to go for when I get the belt situation taken care of and finish wiring up the control unit.

Ralph - I haven't heard anything good or bad about Envirosafe stuff. I'm willing to bet that since it's not being touted as a Federally mandated replacement for R134A, it most likely doesn't work as well. (just a hunch)
Yes, mine was an original a/c equipped car, so it was a pretty straight forward install.

'72 Mach 1, 351 4v CJ, Ram Air, C6, 3:50 Trak Lock, a/c, ps, pw, pb, frt disc, Wimbledon White w/Vermillion int.
  Reply
#10
rocro;192171 Wrote:Yes, mine was an original a/c equipped car, so it was a pretty straight forward install.

thumb

Eric

[Image: mach1sig2.gif]
  Reply
Share Thread:  


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Front brakes upgrade questions 73pony 8 246 11-26-2018, 01:46 PM
Last Post: detritusmaximus
  351C Water Pump Install Question andy72 6 261 11-24-2018, 10:38 AM
Last Post: andy72
  351C assembly Ryunker 3 351 10-04-2018, 05:29 AM
Last Post: Ryunker
  Regulator on my 72 351C Q code w/AC ITMike5.0 5 313 09-20-2018, 08:44 AM
Last Post: SteveO_71
  Correct 351C Thermostats 73pony 12 1,127 08-19-2018, 10:40 AM
Last Post: Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs
  Slow Crank 351c Studdley 10 788 03-03-2018, 08:21 AM
Last Post: Ron Tanzi
  1972 351c oil pan repair BoweP 4 1,392 01-31-2018, 04:19 PM
Last Post: Ron Tanzi
  Moderators or anyone. Upgrade parts list and documentation Sticky??? scgamecock 3 703 10-17-2017, 09:19 AM
Last Post: Hemikiller



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)