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3 link with panhard bar?
#1
Ok i am saving up for a new rear suspension set up and was eyeing the streetandtrack.com bilstein coilover 3 link (http://www.streetortrack.com/Street-or-T...24572.html). But their kit comes with a watts link, and i want to put a panhard bar. Now my question is: would a 3 link set up work good with a panhard bar? if not what set up will work better with a panhard bar/torque arm.

1972 Satin Black Coupe, turns better than average, goes vroom with 303 RWHP.
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#2
I know this isn't an answer to your question, but I have one of my own for you (because I'm curious, not because I think you're wrong) but why go with a panhard bar over a Watts link? From a performance perspective the watts link does a better job of keeping the rear end properly centered under the car than a panhard bar. Is there an application where the panhard is preferred? Or is this just a personal preference?

2013 Ford Focus SE Flex Fuel 5spd - Daily Driver
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#3
Watts link weighs more, adds a number of extra possible failure points and is a lot more complicated. Yes it does center the axle a lot better but a pan hard bar works quite well with proper geometry using less space and weight. Far as a 3 link a panhard should work fine if it is installed right.

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#4
Keep the panhard bar as long as possible. In the Trans-Am series they used Panhard bars with leaf spring suspensions.

As for the 3 link... why? Folks go plenty fast on the auto X and road course with leaf sprung cars. (look up Mary Pozzi's Camaro) You are adding more failure points, not to be a smartass but... Big Grin

My only real question is, how fast do you intend to go and is it worth the expense. Unless you are an excellent fabricator and trust your and others' lives to your skill this will be expensive.

Jeff T.

Low buck, touring style, '73 Convertible "rolling restoration", 351c, 2v heads with a shave and a haircut, Performer intake, Holley 650(ish), roller rockers, screw in studs, guideplates, stainless valves, Duraspark / Motorsports MSD, T-5 conversion. 1-1/8" front, 3/4" rear swaybars KYB shocks and some home brewed subframe connectors. Future plans; JGC steering box, Cobra brakes and... paint, interior, etc.

When I die I want to die like grandpa, peacefully in my sleep... not screaming, like his passenger.

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#5
While you can go plenty fast with leaf springs. A 3 or 4 link is a night and day upgrade on almost any vehicle. Suspension tuning, traction, axle wrap are just a few of the worth while reasons. I was blown away by the improved drivability my truck had after installing a parallel 4 link with adjustable coilovers.

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#6
MechEng;164672 Wrote:I know this isn't an answer to your question, but I have one of my own for you (because I'm curious, not because I think you're wrong) but why go with a panhard bar over a Watts link? From a performance perspective the watts link does a better job of keeping the rear end properly centered under the car than a panhard bar. Is there an application where the panhard is preferred? Or is this just a personal preference?

well i dont personally have any experience with either. But i hard many people say that panhard bar is better than a watts link. Havent heard any vice versa. And yes it is a personal preference. But in the end i want the best performance wise

droptop73;164718 Wrote:Keep the panhard bar as long as possible. In the Trans-Am series they used Panhard bars with leaf spring suspensions.

As for the 3 link... why? Folks go plenty fast on the auto X and road course with leaf sprung cars. (look up Mary Pozzi's Camaro) You are adding more failure points, not to be a smartass but... Big Grin

My only real question is, how fast do you intend to go and is it worth the expense. Unless you are an excellent fabricator and trust your and others' lives to your skill this will be expensive.

better spring rate and the fact that i can have coilovers. To me the price doesnt matter as much as i need to save up, that doesnt mean im going to go crazy, just reasonable. and i thought mary pozzi changed out her rear end?? haha Tongue and eventually i want to go faster. once i start hitting the bigger tracks like willowsprings or chuckawalla etc ( cars go upwards of 140 MPH)

mdan575;164746 Wrote:While you can go plenty fast with leaf springs. A 3 or 4 link is a night and day upgrade on almost any vehicle. Suspension tuning, traction, axle wrap are just a few of the worth while reasons. I was blown away by the improved drivability my truck had after installing a parallel 4 link with adjustable coilovers.

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So you think a 4 link will be better than a 3 link?

i use this car 80% street and 20% track. I started going on smaller traacks now, but eventually i want to go bigger more faster tracks, and autocrossing

1972 Satin Black Coupe, turns better than average, goes vroom with 303 RWHP.
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#7
A watts link like everyone said, is better than a pan hard bar. Go to http://fays2.net/fays2_watts_link_11_.html. Their stuff is bolt in for mustangs. Weight would be negligible, a few pounds is not going to make any difference. Just a reminder all the trans-am cars back in the day 60's and 70's had leaf spring suspension and they handled pretty good.
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#8
The purpose to either modification is to prevent the axle from moving side to side in turns. Both accomplish this in different manners. Watt's links use a pair of arms and a propeller mounted on the rear end to prevent the rear end from moving except straight up and down. The clearances in the bushings not withstanding it works very well.

A Panhard Bar is simpler tying the rear end to the frame with a single sided bar that pivots- that means that the rear end as it goes above or below the ride height setting will push the rear end to the side away from the fixed bracket.

Watt's links are great on a race track. They are fantastic on a car designed with them in mind. A retrofitted one will locate the axle very effectively, but will often make running dual exhausts out the back difficult or impossible. Over bumps and rough roads they tend to make some noise and can bind a suspension if not properly set up. They are more expensive and more complicated than a panhard bar, which also works very well, but the panhard bar does move the rear axle side to side by a very small amount at the extremes of travel. Panhard bars are relatively cheap and easy to install. They give you more predictable handling than running without one.

Then again heavy duty shackles that limit side to side deflection will also give fairly significant improvement over stock handling with no bad habits and far less work or expense. Leaf springs act both as the springs and as the links on a coil spring suspension. Proper spring rates and loading are helpful here. A leaf spring suspension with worn bushings and weak springs is a disaster. One with everything fresh and designed for the intended use performs extremely well.

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"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!
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#9
1FM05;164785 Wrote:A watts link like everyone said, is better than a pan hard bar. Go to http://fays2.net/fays2_watts_link_11_.html. Their stuff is bolt in for mustangs. Weight would be negligible, a few pounds is not going to make any difference. Just a reminder all the trans-am cars back in the day 60's and 70's had leaf spring suspension and they handled pretty good.

link doesnt work :/

Jeff73Mach1;164817 Wrote:The purpose to either modification is to prevent the axle from moving side to side in turns. Both accomplish this in different manners. Watt's links use a pair of arms and a propeller mounted on the rear end to prevent the rear end from moving except straight up and down. The clearances in the bushings not withstanding it works very well.

A Panhard Bar is simpler tying the rear end to the frame with a single sided bar that pivots- that means that the rear end as it goes above or below the ride height setting will push the rear end to the side away from the fixed bracket.

Watt's links are great on a race track. They are fantastic on a car designed with them in mind. A retrofitted one will locate the axle very effectively, but will often make running dual exhausts out the back difficult or impossible. Over bumps and rough roads they tend to make some noise and can bind a suspension if not properly set up. They are more expensive and more complicated than a panhard bar, which also works very well, but the panhard bar does move the rear axle side to side by a very small amount at the extremes of travel. Panhard bars are relatively cheap and easy to install. They give you more predictable handling than running without one.

Then again heavy duty shackles that limit side to side deflection will also give fairly significant improvement over stock handling with no bad habits and far less work or expense. Leaf springs act both as the springs and as the links on a coil spring suspension. Proper spring rates and loading are helpful here. A leaf spring suspension with worn bushings and weak springs is a disaster. One with everything fresh and designed for the intended use performs extremely well.

Ya i just replaced my coils and leafs recently and added a rear sway bar an upgraded front sway bar and subframe connectors. Eventually i want to get a front Coilover system and rear coilover system. I just wanted to know what would be better for the track.

1972 Satin Black Coupe, turns better than average, goes vroom with 303 RWHP.
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