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2v engine setup
#1
Now that the body work is getting some what closer to the end!
I am starting to think about the engine build and hopefully pick up engine parts while i finish the body.
I though I had a line on a set of 4v heads but that didn't pan out.
After doing some reading on the 2v & 4v engine set ups, it apparent that the 4v is best suited for serious HP but not very good for the street.
The 2v can be set up for better for low end torque and better suited for the street.
So this got me looking at the different 2v set ups on the site.
With the myriad of carburetor, cam, header, ignition, etc, combinations, what really works and what doesn't work.
So could some of you who have gone threw the learning curve give me your advise.
Is the 2v the right way to go for the street
what is the best bang for the $


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#2
In my opinion yes, stick with the 2v heads (since you have them already). The best dollars spent will be on an Edelbrock performer 2v and a 670 street avenger carb. An "RV" type cam is a good choice as it will fill the cylinders well and provide loads of torque at low RPM which is where a street engine needs to perform. If you can free up some budget money talk to the guys at Comp and have them set up a hydraulic roller cam for you. If you get a reduced base circle cam ground you can use Ford lifters and hardware to save considerable dollars. Light the mix with a duraspark distributor and an MSD. As for exhaust I do not beleive headers are worth using on a street engine (too much maint.) I am a firm beleiver in spending money once by determining exactly what you want in the end. If you want to race go with some aluminum CHI heads, they are proven performers.

Jeff T.

Low buck, touring style, '73 Convertible "rolling restoration", 351c, 2v heads with a shave and a haircut, Performer intake, Holley 650(ish), roller rockers, screw in studs, guideplates, stainless valves, Duraspark / Motorsports MSD, T-5 conversion. 1-1/8" front, 3/4" rear swaybars KYB shocks and some home brewed subframe connectors. Future plans; JGC steering box, Cobra brakes and... paint, interior, etc.

When I die I want to die like grandpa, peacefully in my sleep... not screaming, like his passenger.

[Image: 1_12_09_14_10_15_11.png]
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#3
Here is a site with a ton of builds

http://www.network54.com/Forum/263038/
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#4
+1 on what Jeff said. Call Comp Cams and tell them what you want to do with your car. They will set you up with a nice cam for your use, along with all the necessary matching parts that are mandatory.

Jeff is not fond of headers, and this is where I respectfully disagree with my friend. Getting the burned fuel mix out of the combustion chamber is almost as important as getting the properly ratio'd air/fuel mix into it, and I believe that headers are necessary to do that. Although the stock 2V exhaust manifolds might have been better than many back in the day, I still believe that aftermarket headers will provide better exhaust flow than stock.

Otherwise, I agree with what Jeff said with regard to street performance.

Doc


Doc

[Image: 6y14ea.jpg]

Project started 8-7-10
Completed: All new suspension, rebuilt 351C H Code bored .030 over with mild cam and intake, new 3.50 TracLok, custom exhaust system
Current "mini-project": interior upgrade Undecided
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#5
Or just send your check book and Jeff, Doc, Mark and myself will take care of the restBig Grin
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#6
Tnfastbk;61757 Wrote:Here is a site with a ton of builds

http://www.network54.com/Forum/263038/

Bookmarked! Smile
  Reply
#7
Tnfastbk;61764 Wrote:Or just send your check book and Jeff, Doc, Mark and myself will take care of the restBig Grin

You read my thoughts perfectly!! Big Grin

Doc

[Image: 6y14ea.jpg]

Project started 8-7-10
Completed: All new suspension, rebuilt 351C H Code bored .030 over with mild cam and intake, new 3.50 TracLok, custom exhaust system
Current "mini-project": interior upgrade Undecided
  Reply
#8
M Beauchamp;61722 Wrote:After doing some reading on the 2v & 4v engine set ups, it apparent that the 4v is best suited for serious HP but not very good for the street.
You are in for a beating on this subject...as am I.

I have personally owned and driven thousands of miles as a daily driver the following(in order of quickness):

70.351C .. 4V Carb & Heads 4Speed XR7...100% Stock
73.351C .. 2V Carb Auto Mustang...100% Stock
70.351W.. 4V Carb & 2v Heads Auto(Built from below with Mild Cam) XR7
70.351W.. 2V Carb & Heads Auto XR7 Stock
73.302.... 4V Carb, 2v Heads Auto(Built from 302 2V with Mild Cam) Mustang

I have never owned/driven/heard a 351C with 4V carb and 2v heads...apparently that is the only thing missing from my experience. I see lots of posts claiming how great this setup is, but I never come across anyone PERSONALLY that is doing this.

The fastest car by far was the #1, 70 351C 4V Stock. Very mild in idle at the line. But it was faster out of the hole, faster from 30-60, faster from 60-100(I understand gear ratios play a part in this as well...I am not a writer for Car Craft). I have no idea what anyone is talking about regarding "not meant to be driven daily". I wish I still had that motor and drive train today. I would drive it 60 miles round trip in rush hour traffic and never complain about it.

Like you, I am also in the middle of building my 351C 4V Quench Head motor. However, I am piecing together a motor from bits of iron bought from all over the country. I NEVER FOR AN INSTANT considered 2V heads on this motor, despite all the ranting and raving about them.

If you are as concerned about the time and effort you put into your motor as I am, find someone who has a car/motor you like and find out what they did. Here in SoCal, most everyone goes WAY to lopey on their motors for my taste. They do sound nice at 1500+RPM, but until then, they make an idling Harley seem calm and well mannered. Many guys here have huge cams, huge carbs, state of the art $$$$ ignition systems. God bless them, but that isn't me.

I could not find anyone with a motor I liked. So, I started my build with a 351 Boss cam spec(see my recent post regarding that subject). With everything written about that motor, I thought it was a good place to start. I am satisfied that the cam going into my motor, will be a little more grouchy at idle than a 351 Boss, but not too much. I doubt it will be as fast as the 351C 4V with the toploader as I am running an automatic, but we will see what happens. If it ends up being a close #2, and runs without problems, and is extremely loud, I will consider it mission accomplished...and a reason to install a 5 speed overdrive at a later time.

So, for what it is worth:

351W 4V Carb, 2V Heads, Stock 2V Exhaust Manifolds, FMX, 2.75 Gears, Isky 262 Hydraulic SuperCam
.445 lift at valve(1.60 Rocker Arms). 262 Duration, 108 Lobe Center,
Very mild, nice soft rumble in the cabin, sounds like a Mercury at the rear, not quick off line, but fast from rolling start. Gears too low and tires to big.

Soon
351C 4V Carb, 4V Quench Head, Headers of some type because the stock 4V manifolds will suppress the sound, C4, ??? Gears, Isky 264 Hydraulic MegaCam
.525 lift at valve(1.73 Rocker Arms), 264 Duration, 108 Lobe Center
To be determined.

Blah blah blah...good luck.

[Image: 11jmcuc.png]
351C Bold Manners, Brash Attitude
Favorite Teams: Michigan Wolverines and Whoever Is Playing Ohio State.

When I drive past a herd of cows, the cows MOO at me
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#9
ZGW all I can say is on the SS GT/D car we run 4v cleveland open chambered iron heads with BOTH intake and exhaust ports filled approximately 25% using a roush intake and a 750 vacuum secondary carb. 9.45 @ 146mph says it all in my book. The port volume on a 4V cleveland head is just WAY too big to maintain flow velocities.

Talk to any race engine builder with experience building clevelands. Look at the Roush / Yates heads. Ernie Elliott made tons of power with "pea shooter" heads.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying 2v heads are superior. They have many issues as well. The short side radius in the exhaust port is too sharp and you hit water if you try to fix it.

My point is for a mild street engine the 2V heads are the way to go. I believe that was the original question anyway.

Jeff T.

Low buck, touring style, '73 Convertible "rolling restoration", 351c, 2v heads with a shave and a haircut, Performer intake, Holley 650(ish), roller rockers, screw in studs, guideplates, stainless valves, Duraspark / Motorsports MSD, T-5 conversion. 1-1/8" front, 3/4" rear swaybars KYB shocks and some home brewed subframe connectors. Future plans; JGC steering box, Cobra brakes and... paint, interior, etc.

When I die I want to die like grandpa, peacefully in my sleep... not screaming, like his passenger.

[Image: 1_12_09_14_10_15_11.png]
  Reply
#10
M Beauchamp ...told you I was going to get into trouble...

Droptop73..."We run 4v cleveland open chambered iron heads with BOTH intake and exhaust ports filled approximately 25% using a roush intake and a 750 vacuum secondary carb. 9.45 @ 146mph says it all in my book."

I can't disagree with what you are saying. In fact, I respect what you are saying. My intention as a rookie 7173mustang member was to simply provide information of my personal daily driver experience, and what I want in my street car. Your point is he can save the money and be satisfied.

The point I make is, based on my experience, the bad rap 4V's get in regards to daily drivers, street machines, is WAY overblown. You recommend a 2V because you have a race car with 4V heads with filled ports. I recommend 4V heads without filled ports because I used to drive one on the street every day, I drove it thousands of miles(bought it stock with 60K and put another 60k on the original motor...using unleaded fuel(!)), and I would not take the chance of putting my time and effort into rebuilding the motor and having any second thoughts.

Will M Beauchamp be disappointed keeping his 2V heads and keeping a few hundred $$$ canadian in his pocket? Probably not... in fact let us say NO he will not be disappointed. He did say best bang for the buck.

Will he(assuming M is a he) be wondering how much better his car MIGHT(and I emphasize might) be if spent the extra $$$(let's guess $500c) and got the 4V heads and necessary exhaust? I would. But, to be clear, that is me. And right or wrong, in response to the question, "what type of heads do you have", no one is ever "wowed" over by the response "Stock 2v Heads." Although when you run a 9.45 quarter mile I bet they are!!!

Regardless of all the posts, I just can't help but wonder why the guys who engineered the 351 BOSS did not leave on the 2V heads if during the new car test drive the potential buyer would have been more WOWED over? Maybe they didn't know any better. Maybe we'll be lucky one day and find one of these engineers and he will tell us what they were thinking.
M,

For what it is worth, I have started a spreadsheet detailing EVERYTHING I need to get to build a 351C from scratch.

I am trying to make it absolutely thorough and complete, down to the thermostat bolts.

It is yours for the asking. Perhaps we could collaberate as it is really going to irritate me to no end if I am missing anything.
[/quote]


Tnfastbk;61764 Wrote:Or just send your check book and Jeff, Doc, Mark and myself will take care of the restBig Grin
How long would it take(Ouch!!!)Wink


[Image: 11jmcuc.png]
351C Bold Manners, Brash Attitude
Favorite Teams: Michigan Wolverines and Whoever Is Playing Ohio State.

When I drive past a herd of cows, the cows MOO at me
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