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1971 M Code Ram Air Convertible ????
#1
Greetings,

I am floating this and would like your opinions.  I have 2 twin girls that will be 16 in 2 years.  (Fun)

We have a 1973 convertible that is just turning into a nice driver.  351C 2V / C6 / Nice options / AC - Perfect for a fun car to drive to highschool.

The other is a 1971 convertible - M code - Ram Air - Locking rear end - mechanically we are getting close to having it done but even with a nearly stock conservitive build it will be nearly 350hp.  Not such a perfect car to drive every week.

We have the engine back from the machine shop and together  Standard bore / factory flat top pistons / mild cam upgrade - fully painted and detailed.
The trans is being gone through and will be back from the shop next month.
The rear end is a 3.25 posi has been inspected - needed nothing.

We will be replacing all the brakes, brake and fuel lines / fuel tank.  Very soon the car will be completely mechanically restored.

It needs typical rust repair in the engine compartment but the cowls are solid.  The torque boxes need repair.  The rear quarters and outer wheel houses need attention but are better than the 73 we just had done.   Certianly a resonable amount of work needed but not what I want go through to end up with a car that is not a good fit for us.

I would like to trade this unfinshed but mechanically completed car for a very basic 71-73 convertible or fastback that is a "20 footer" daily driver.  Does this sound fair?

Someone would get a car with some decent future collectability that will need no additional mechanical work and we would get something better for a teenagers first car to drive back and forth to highschool.  

Attached is the Marti report - The only thing missing from the car are the 15 inch magnums, front bumper guards, and 8 track.  Everything else is there and we have many additional and duplicate parts that would go with it.

I made a video of it a few years ago before we started on it.  As discussed above the engine is done and the rest of the mechanicals will be correctly done soon.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2dxPkp7BUo

Thanks! Let me know if I am thinking correctly.

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#2
My opinion is something that I'm sure you are not wanting to hear. But I would get my kid(s) a nice modern, used, late model car with all of the safety features that come with it.

73 ragtop, 1999 Mustang Bright Atlantic Blue Paint, Phoenix Engine 302-335HP,  Edelbrock Carb & Performer manifold; c4 with 2000 stall and shiftkit; 3:55 auburn limited slip differential, Hedman shorties; Car Chemistry Exhaust

Classic Air; Tilt Steering Wheel; 1999 Chrysler Sebring bucket Seats ; power windows;
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#3
(01-28-2018, 06:13 PM)mudbilly Wrote: My opinion is something that  I'm sure you are not wanting to hear. But I would get my kid(s) a nice modern, used, late model car with all of the safety features that come with it.

Can't argue with that but we have always had "fun cars" to drive.  My oldest who is grown now drove the 1968 Torino his senior year and it created some great memories for him.  All life is about is creating good memories.

My next son is a junior and he is not that car focused - he drives a lovely 2011 Ford Fusion.  Of all of our vehicles it has turned out to be the least reliable.  It is the only car that I have had to trailer home because it quit on him. (More than once)

The 73 is mechanically brand new - we have added Fitech EFI and it starts and drives perfect.  I think it will absorb an impact better than most new cars and no Takata air bags.  Is it as safe as a new car - probably not but I would not consider it overly dangerous.  Nothing like a big / heavy / long / wide / low vehicle wrapped around you.

The 71 will just be to much performance for a teenager and it would a shame if a rare car got tore up. 

I was staring at the 71 today and was not excited about finishing it.  Then this silly idea popped into my head.

- Paul
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#4
(01-28-2018, 07:07 PM)Paul of MO Wrote:
(01-28-2018, 06:13 PM)mudbilly Wrote: My opinion is something that  I'm sure you are not wanting to hear. But I would get my kid(s) a nice modern, used, late model car with all of the safety features that come with it.

Can't argue with that but we have always had "fun cars" to drive.  My oldest who is grown now drove the 1968 Torino his senior year and it created some great memories for him.  All life is about is creating good memories.

My next son is a junior and he is not that car focused - he drives a lovely 2011 Ford Fusion.  Of all of our vehicles it has turned out to be the least reliable.  It is the only car that I have had to trailer home because it quit on him. (More than once)

The 73 is mechanically brand new - we have added Fitech EFI and it starts and drives perfect.  I think it will absorb an impact better than most new cars and no Takata air bags.  Is it as safe as a new car - probably not but I would not consider it overly dangerous.  Nothing like a big / heavy / long / wide / low vehicle wrapped around you.

The 71 will just be to much performance for a teenager and it would a shame if a rare car got tore up. 

I was staring at the 71 today and was not excited about finishing it.  Then this silly idea popped into my head.

- Paul

That 71 is a nice car to own. Very rare And lots of options... I would be very happy if I was able to drive a Mustang convertible at 16 years old :-)

I agree with mudbilly regarding the safety of these cars

These old cars look impressive but the energy absorbsion during impact is almost non existent. These cars rip open like a can of sardines. I am pretty sure that you are safer in a Smart car than in one of these big Mustangs. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ5PcWziXT0


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TJzZ7-Od6KY
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#5
my mach was given to a 16 year old to drive, 3 major collisions later it was sat in a yard to rot, 10 years into resto and its almost done. Fun and cool is all well and good but a 4000 lb slow to respond, wide body, high sitting, blind spot magnet capable of over a hundred mph with a single lap belt that any kid into cars is going to want to drive like or push the driver to drive like a stunt car driver is asking for both a huge financial loss and what could be a very serious for life or limb incident. You know your kids, and some are very responsible, but the most responsible 16 year olds are rarely more cautious than a 40 year old that's had some close calls.
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#6
(01-29-2018, 02:34 AM)libram Wrote: my mach was given to a 16 year old to drive, 3 major collisions later it was sat in a yard to rot, 10 years into resto and its almost done. Fun and cool is all well and good but a 4000 lb slow to respond, wide body, high sitting, blind spot magnet capable of over a hundred mph with a single lap belt that any kid into cars is going to want to drive like or push the driver to drive like a stunt car driver is asking for both a huge financial loss and what could be a very serious for life or limb incident. You know your kids, and some are very responsible, but the most responsible 16 year olds are rarely more cautious than a 40 year old that's had some close calls.

Those are wonderful memories are they not?   There is a balance between experiencing life and just living through it.  Finding that balance is the challenging part. 

"My first car was a Honda 4 door or something like that - I don't really remember"  That is a really sad sentence.
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#7
Rust repair is the most difficult for a dyi project, and expensive to have done at a shop. I would rather take on a project that needs mechanical work over rust repair any day. Add the cost of the normal body and paint when you're done, and personally, I wouldn't want to do the trade you're thinking of, even though you have a desirable car.

Steve
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#8
If I were younger I would take you up on that. I have a 73 vert H code been upgraded to holley 4-V with two barrel heads. It only has 48,000 miles and no rust California car.
But I am too old to put another project in the que. For reference here are some pictures of what a very low speed crash will do to one of these cars. This car was a one owner and was sitting at stop light and got hit in rear probably less than 35 mph. It was knocked into another vehicle in the front. The owner had just put a NOS front bumper, reinforcement and brackets on when painted. The drivers seat frame is all twisted and bent from the impact. I would rather be hit in a new car than the old. I was a automotive tooling engineer and they are much tougher today than back then. The materials used are 4 times stronger than the materials in our cars so th
at is a big bonus. The crush zones also make it absorb the crash much better. I parted out the car not worth fixing there are so many out there.
I know you Dad was probably the best at engines ever and he probably got that car because of the engines combo.
btw I am not up on 71 but I thought a 71 with ram air was a Q and just a 4-V was an M or am I backward? You have the Marti which tells all.
The yellow 73 rust free vert was only $7,200 off Ebay you can find them cheap if you look. Everything on the yellow vert came with it except the top and it came off the crashed vert.
I went to Atlanta to get a 73 coupe last week for $3,800 but he sold the day before I went. 5 years into a restoration moving had to sell. Had all new floors, trunk, NASA hood, was in primer ready to paint. Was a 302 auto car, red. They are cheap just go looking.

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David


When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??
Tongue
David
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#9
I know you and my dad exchanged many kind and informative messages.  I appreciate that so much.

Agreed that a new car is safer - I would not let my kids drive anything older than something from the seventies and certainly not something from the 50's and certainly nothing high performance. 

That car took a good hit and it looks like the occupants were protected - probably sore but unhurt.  They were certainly enjoying that days drive more than if they were in a Civic.  (Well, until that last little bit - LOL)

Your car would be so perfect for my girls - it is even the correct color as our other one is yellow with a white interior.

I figured that my car is worth around 7 or 8 thousand as it sits and have looked at a few base model drivers that were selling for the same amount.   The thought of spending the next year working on a car that we would ultimately end up selling anyway makes me sad.   I would rather spend the next year finishing the one we are going to keep.

So - If anyone has a decent looking / some bondo is ok / base model / low performance / no options / daily driver / not rusted out underneath / and wants to take on a project please let me know.

My wife and I agreed that we would deliver our car in person as we have not taken a long road trip in quite a while. 

Hope everyone's 2018 is getting off to a great start!

- Paul
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