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Unheard of Timing AFTER TC
#1
Hey everyone, a new problem has occured with my 302 2v that I have never heard of. I had a problem with overheating and a "Ping" when the engin got hot. I fixed the overheating prob by changing out the radiator and putting in a 190* thermostat.
My timing was set at 8-10* BTC and the car would run pretty good untill it got up to operating temp, then it started to get a terreiable "Ping" I retarted the timing to TDC and the pinging was less, So on a lark I set itabout 15-20* AFTER TDC and the ping has stopped.
I dont have much power but it seems to be running ok.
I tried to time the dist by sound and also by vacume, both were between 6-25* BTC and it still was pinging real bad.

The carb seems to be adjusted ok too.
The only other clue I have is when I time the dist by ear the RPM increases and I can not adjust the carb anywhere below 1000 rpm.
I'm about my wits end, any ideas?? how much am I hurting my engin?
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#2
Verify #1 at TDC first in case you jumped a tooth on your timing chain. If it did, sounds like a cam replacement time to me. Also, if chain is right pull your valve covers and measure the pushrod travel. this will give you your cam lift measurement. But, sounds like jumped time or the lobes are wore.

[Image: 2rr7aiv.png]

Just cruising along minding our own business when BAM!!! The LAWS show up.
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#3
Balancer could be shot and the marks are off. Yeah, start with the basics, make sure when you are at TDC the pointer is at TDC on the balancer.

Do you run a vacuum advance? What is your total advance at, say, 2000 rpm? (Once you verify your TDC mark is correct)


'Mike'
73 Convertible - 351C/4V CC heads/4bolt/forged flat tops/comp 270/rhodes/mallory unilite/tri-power/hookers/glasspacks/c6/3.50 limited slip/Gear Vendors/Global West sub frames, strut rods and shelby style traction bars/ Rear sway bar/tilt steering (not original)

Pics of modifications included in:
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#4
It is hard to believe the engine is not getting HOT if the timing is really that retared. How does it run when you time it by ear? Is the engine original to the car? If I remember correctly, and I'm not saying I do, there are three different timing pointer locations and three different indexed dampers to go with them. I think the locations are roughly 10, 11, and 1 o'clock positions (1970 and up, 10 and 11, and before 1970, 1 o'clock). It could be a mix-and-match problem. If you can determine when piston #1 is at TDC on the compression stroke you can see where the TDC mark is relative to the timing pointer. This is assuming the outer ring has not slipped. As WillE said it could be the outer ring has changed position relative to the hub.

PS the 1969 and older damper used 3 bolts to secure the pulley to the damper, 1970 and up used 4 bolts. There should be a casting number on the timing cover and the damper. If you can read them it should be easy to tell the general year of the parts. Keep at it. You will figure it out. Chuck
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#5
After finding TDC. You actually can make your own marks on the damper. Then turn your garage lights off and hit it with your timing light.(myself I use a full strobe light) If there is any deflection in your damper rubber you'll see it as you rev the motor. Just pay attention to the rubber and ring and not the timing marks.

[Image: 2rr7aiv.png]

Just cruising along minding our own business when BAM!!! The LAWS show up.
  Reply
#6
Another thing to look at is your distributer gear. After you verify TDC roll the motor running and check it again. May be a worn gear/advance plate.

[Image: 2rr7aiv.png]

Just cruising along minding our own business when BAM!!! The LAWS show up.
  Reply
#7
tndt1;35963 Wrote:Hey everyone, a new problem has occured with my 302 2v that I have never heard of. I had a problem with overheating and a "Ping" when the engin got hot. I fixed the overheating prob by changing out the radiator and putting in a 190* thermostat.
My timing was set at 8-10* BTC and the car would run pretty good untill it got up to operating temp, then it started to get a terreiable "Ping" I retarted the timing to TDC and the pinging was less, So on a lark I set itabout 15-20* AFTER TDC and the ping has stopped.
I dont have much power but it seems to be running ok.
I tried to time the dist by sound and also by vacume, both were between 6-25* BTC and it still was pinging real bad.

The carb seems to be adjusted ok too.
The only other clue I have is when I time the dist by ear the RPM increases and I can not adjust the carb anywhere below 1000 rpm.
I'm about my wits end, any ideas?? how much am I hurting my engin?

Did this just start out of the blue or was some change just made and this is the result?

Are you running points?

73 conv. 460, D0VE large valve heads, Performer RPM manifold, Voodoo 227/233 cam, Holley 950 HP carb, C6 trans, 3.25 trak-loc.
  Reply
#8
Hey all thanks for the reply,
I checked the timing marks against the tdc on the compression stroke of #1, and found that the pointer showed aprox 6-8* after tdc. about the same spot I have the timing set now (No ping) I would guess that the balancer had shifted huh?

Additional clues: I replaced the timing chain and gears about 6 mons ago so I know there not worn.

I replaced the drivers side head gasket and the distributor about 9 mos ago due to a leak between cyls 7 & 8

On a lark I checked the temp of all the cyls at the plug, I found some diffrences they are
#1 170
#2 200
#3 180
#4 170
#5 240
#6 230
#7 140 ??
#8 130??
Could this mean I have another prob with #'s 7 & 8??

Im gonna run the stang like this for awhile and see if anything else pops up
Thanks guys
Ted
  Reply
#9
My dampner (balancer) shifted back so much it was almost ready to hit the oil pan. Make sure
yours is not doing the same. The rubber cracks when they get old and it starts slipping, time for a replacement dampner.

1971 Mach1
351C-4v
C6 is history-->>now TKO-500
  Reply
#10
tndt1;36087 Wrote:Hey all thanks for the reply,
I checked the timing marks against the tdc on the compression stroke of #1, and found that the pointer showed aprox 6-8* after tdc. about the same spot I have the timing set now (No ping) I would guess that the balancer had shifted huh?

Additional clues: I replaced the timing chain and gears about 6 mons ago so I know there not worn.

I replaced the drivers side head gasket and the distributor about 9 mos ago due to a leak between cyls 7 & 8

On a lark I checked the temp of all the cyls at the plug, I found some diffrences they are
#1 170
#2 200
#3 180
#4 170
#5 240
#6 230
#7 140 ??
#8 130??
Could this mean I have another prob with #'s 7 & 8??

Im gonna run the stang like this for awhile and see if anything else pops up
Thanks guys
Ted

Are these truly temp readings or are they compression test results?, Are you sure you got the cam installed correctly? Whether they are temp or compression readings they are unusual results to say the least. Assuming they are comp readings the widely varying cylinder pressures resulting from an out of phase cam installation could explain why the engine will only run with the timing you indicate and may also explain the erroneous timing indication from the balancer. If they are in fact temp readings I don't know what to make of them.

73 conv. 460, D0VE large valve heads, Performer RPM manifold, Voodoo 227/233 cam, Holley 950 HP carb, C6 trans, 3.25 trak-loc.
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