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Received Some Pics
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Stang Me



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    Post: #1
    Received Some Pics

    Hello again everybody,
    I was sent some pics of the 71. Looks like this newbe has his work cut out. Does it look like this engine can be saved? It's the original. Thanks for all and any input!


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    Offline 10-05-2010 09:45 PM
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    72HCODE


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      Post: #2
      RE: Received Some Pics

      well its very hard to get a lot of info from the picture, it looks like it hasn't been touched in a long time, looks original i see the old school A/C compressor with a line cut on it however it doesn't look stock to me and the condenser is weird. might of been converted to 132 no way to tell with out more pics.

      looks like a 302 v8 i want more pics around the engine to be sure, i would guess if original its got a FMX transmission.
      i want pics of the carb and things around it.

      i see things are missing.
      its got the double center support for the grill which is def 71.

      horn is aftermarket.

      i would try to get more photos close up from different angles.

      you won't know what you really have till you start getting into it.

      the engine would be up to your plans with the car, if you want performance and you don't care about original, then you would just take out the engine and trans and start over.

      otherwise:
      well you will need to see if the crank is free or if the engine is bound up inside.
      See the condition of the fluid in the car.
      mud in the oil pan and i wouldn't even try to start it.
      Lets say the oil comes out looking good, no metal in it or water.
      Next would be a compression test on all 8.
      maybe a leakdown test.
      maybe pull the valve covers and see how much sludge is inside it or if you find a broken rocker.
      put new oil in it and a filter then maybe pull the distributor and run a drill extension on the oil pump and make sure its pumping oil around.
      drain the rad, and see how bad it the coolant is. maybe run a hose and flush out the rad. check all the hoses for obvious cracks and leaks.

      lets say the numbers come back from those tests good, then i would do a total tune up on it.
      i bet its got old gas in it so your looking at a carb rebuild, i wouldn't trust anything out of the fuel tank if it has gas in it.
      i would run a bypass to a 2 gallon fuel can and run the carb off it.

      so at this point if compression is good, you rebuilt the carb, did a total tune up, oil change, filter change, plugs, wires, go through the engine bay electrical harness. make sure nothing is frayed or you have broken wires, then i would hook up a battery and first test the electrical in the car before adding gas and trying to fire the engine, you want to make sure you have no shorts and no fuses keep blowing.

      once the electrical is good and you have the engine sorted out, then i would attempt to start it using a fuel bypass can to the carb and a fire extinguisher on standby.

      at that point you will know if the engine worth saving. if she runs and looks clean inside it might be good, run it for like 30 seconds, shut down. now you need to go further. checking the cooling system, then continue the engine service maybe change the thermostat, clean out the pcv system, check the hot choke operation, maybe replace or recore the rad if a lot of rust comes out. maybe change the water pump have a look at the timing cover for rusting out.

      then you need to go more diagnostics on it, check oil pressure, check vacuum,

      well basically you really want to save this engine its going to be work, you have an unknown factor inside it and you can't see damage you can only hear it.

      i mean you could go through all that work tring to decide if the engine is good you fire it up and its got a nasty rod knock or bottom end knock.

      that is why you want to tear into the engine a bit and see the condition of the fluids and start doing cheap diagnostic tests.

      as an example my 351. i knew the engine ran because it was started for me a bunch of times, now back then my skills were very lacking, knowing what i know now i think i could of got the engine to run better but evidence was pointing more and more to the engine needing a total rebuild. before i started to drive it, i tore the distributor out(it was worn), i tore out the intake and valve covers i had vacuum leaks and i discovered the inside of the engine was very clean of sludge and looked good inside, so did a compression test and the numbers were low but all the cylinders were within 15% of each other so everything was worn evenly. i changed the seals reinstalled everything and did a basic tune up. my engine was messed around with and all the stock emmisions stuff was gone so i had less to deal with.

      i got the engine to run better i got 2 years out of it with the stink of fuel stinging my eyes when i drove it. it ran just poorly.
      then i broke down and did a rebuild and it needed it. then i tore into the other systems in the engine bay and it was just problem after problem that i dealt with as it came up.

      the short of it;

      do a lot of simple diagnostics on it before you dump money into it.
      i would pull the valve covers see how bad it is inside. see if the crank turns by hand(breaker bar) easy. drain all fluids and see the condition. do a compression test on it. then go from there.

      brown coolant Bad
      water in oil Bad
      water in the cylinders REALLY BAD
      pull the old spark plugs , mechanical damage REALLY BAD
      brown transmission fluid Bad
      rip apart the oil filter, metal shavings inside REALLY BAD,

      if everything come out looking good then you have a good chance at saving it but you need more tests.
      Offline 10-05-2010 11:12 PM
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      Stang Me



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        Post: #3
        RE: Received Some Pics

        (10-05-2010 11:12 PM)72HCODE Wrote:  well its very hard to get a lot of info from the picture, it looks like it hasn't been touched in a long time, looks original i see the old school A/C compressor with a line cut on it however it doesn't look stock to me and the condenser is weird. might of been converted to 132 no way to tell with out more pics.

        looks like a 302 v8 i want more pics around the engine to be sure, i would guess if original its got a FMX transmission.
        i want pics of the carb and things around it.

        i see things are missing.
        its got the double center support for the grill which is def 71.

        horn is aftermarket.

        i would try to get more photos close up from different angles.

        you won't know what you really have till you start getting into it.

        the engine would be up to your plans with the car, if you want performance and you don't care about original, then you would just take out the engine and trans and start over.

        otherwise:
        well you will need to see if the crank is free or if the engine is bound up inside.
        See the condition of the fluid in the car.
        mud in the oil pan and i wouldn't even try to start it.
        Lets say the oil comes out looking good, no metal in it or water.
        Next would be a compression test on all 8.
        maybe a leakdown test.
        maybe pull the valve covers and see how much sludge is inside it or if you find a broken rocker.
        put new oil in it and a filter then maybe pull the distributor and run a drill extension on the oil pump and make sure its pumping oil around.
        drain the rad, and see how bad it the coolant is. maybe run a hose and flush out the rad. check all the hoses for obvious cracks and leaks.

        lets say the numbers come back from those tests good, then i would do a total tune up on it.
        i bet its got old gas in it so your looking at a carb rebuild, i wouldn't trust anything out of the fuel tank if it has gas in it.
        i would run a bypass to a 2 gallon fuel can and run the carb off it.

        so at this point if compression is good, you rebuilt the carb, did a total tune up, oil change, filter change, plugs, wires, go through the engine bay electrical harness. make sure nothing is frayed or you have broken wires, then i would hook up a battery and first test the electrical in the car before adding gas and trying to fire the engine, you want to make sure you have no shorts and no fuses keep blowing.

        once the electrical is good and you have the engine sorted out, then i would attempt to start it using a fuel bypass can to the carb and a fire extinguisher on standby.

        at that point you will know if the engine worth saving. if she runs and looks clean inside it might be good, run it for like 30 seconds, shut down. now you need to go further. checking the cooling system, then continue the engine service maybe change the thermostat, clean out the pcv system, check the hot choke operation, maybe replace or recore the rad if a lot of rust comes out. maybe change the water pump have a look at the timing cover for rusting out.

        then you need to go more diagnostics on it, check oil pressure, check vacuum,

        well basically you really want to save this engine its going to be work, you have an unknown factor inside it and you can't see damage you can only hear it.

        i mean you could go through all that work tring to decide if the engine is good you fire it up and its got a nasty rod knock or bottom end knock.

        that is why you want to tear into the engine a bit and see the condition of the fluids and start doing cheap diagnostic tests.

        as an example my 351. i knew the engine ran because it was started for me a bunch of times, now back then my skills were very lacking, knowing what i know now i think i could of got the engine to run better but evidence was pointing more and more to the engine needing a total rebuild. before i started to drive it, i tore the distributor out(it was worn), i tore out the intake and valve covers i had vacuum leaks and i discovered the inside of the engine was very clean of sludge and looked good inside, so did a compression test and the numbers were low but all the cylinders were within 15% of each other so everything was worn evenly. i changed the seals reinstalled everything and did a basic tune up. my engine was messed around with and all the stock emmisions stuff was gone so i had less to deal with.

        i got the engine to run better i got 2 years out of it with the stink of fuel stinging my eyes when i drove it. it ran just poorly.
        then i broke down and did a rebuild and it needed it. then i tore into the other systems in the engine bay and it was just problem after problem that i dealt with as it came up.

        the short of it;

        do a lot of simple diagnostics on it before you dump money into it.
        i would pull the valve covers see how bad it is inside. see if the crank turns by hand(breaker bar) easy. drain all fluids and see the condition. do a compression test on it. then go from there.

        brown coolant Bad
        water in oil Bad
        water in the cylinders REALLY BAD
        pull the old spark plugs , mechanical damage REALLY BAD
        brown transmission fluid Bad
        rip apart the oil filter, metal shavings inside REALLY BAD,

        if everything come out looking good then you have a good chance at saving it but you need more tests.

        Wow, thanks for all the excellent information and advice. Now that you have scared me 1/2 outa my britchesBig Grin I need to really prioratize my actions and think about my personal skills to see if this is something I want to jump into
        Offline 10-06-2010 09:43 AM
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        72HCODE


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          Post: #4
          RE: Received Some Pics

          the thing is you don't have the car yet.

          it really has to be in front of you, in your hands to see how bad things are.

          in this situation i would want to thoroughly inspect this car from stem to stern.

          then you need to figure out what you want this car to be. It tell you flat out for a regular 71 car based on what i see in the pictures you are already under water as far as cost to sell ratio.

          if you want this car to be original some things will cost more and somethings will cost less.

          the engine will cost more because you may need a total rebuild remember the car is 39 years old if that engine is original and has not been used in more then a few years and depending on storage it might be gone from the get go.

          i had an engine that was crappily rebuilt sometime in 2000 .30 over then sat around for what seemed like 5 years, and had major rust pitting in the cylinder walls with the type of damage you would find if the engine heads were left off the motor and rain water was allowed to get in. i get it, it runs real bad and have to dump 5K for another rebuild just 6 years later according to receipts i found and if the Original owner is to be believed just 6000 miles later(i believe that was a big lie).

          you need to get a lot more info out of the person you got it from.

          how long did they own it?
          when was it last on the road?
          why did it stop being driven?
          how long ago was it last started?
          general maintenance?
          was it stored outside or inside?

          I see a picture of a car with no air cleaner base on it, anything from rain water to mice could of gotten inside and remember depending on where the engine stoped on its rotation any number of valves can be in the open position allowing rain water right into the engine where it could of frozen in the winter and busted the block internally.

          that is why i say really think about what you want the car to be, in the end if you want the car to be a mach 1 clone then stop now, and get a mach 1 instead to start, because just having the 05 in the Vin bumps the valve up on resale at least 10K. then from there is different levels of mach 1 trim that again bump the value up.

          if you want an upgraded suspension over ford stock, then your going to have the disadvantage of not having a staggered rear shock and sway bar setup, i'm in this boat when i got into my car i didn't even know about the competition suspension i assumed they all had it, and didn't even know about the fold down rear seats.

          if you stick with stock mechanical bolt on parts then the parts are cheap, suspension will cost you about 1000$ for a total rebuild, if you go after market you could easily throw 5000$ into the suspension and then have all kind of issues to solve, like camber and ackerman angles.

          if you have a standard interior in good shape then sticking with it and making repairs will be cheaper then swaping out parts and finding all the brackets you may be missing.

          example my car had a deluxe interior, it was originally Vermillion(red) colored. somebody had gone inside and spray bombed it black, i literally mean somebody went into the car with a spray can of black paint and just started spraying over the interior seats and all to make it black colored. not only that but parts were missing, parts had disintegrated because of the sun, and age and abuse, and then everything was covered in black mold because the interior was soaking wet from roof and window leaks. my trunk was a lake when i got the car.

          so i had to start with a few metal interior parts that needed to be stripped down, then i had to hunt down EVERYTHING else. this was in a time when 71-73 parts reproduction barely existed, materials alone cost me over 10,000$ my final cost might be 15,000$ i will never know i burned the bank statement. basically it was like having a car with a standard interior and then converting it to a deluxe, even though i had a deluxe interior to start, condition means a lot. it took me 2 years to get 90% of the parts together and restore them when i could not find a reproduction part, would of been cheaper to by another car.

          so i recommend trying to get a car to start equiped with the options you want rather then try to convert a base model car into a high end car. this is part of the reason i've hesitated restoring my car further, i mean already i'm way underwater in it but i think about going out and getting a R code or M code or CJ car and starting a new project that would be closer to what i envisioned.

          if you want a plain jane 71 and let me tell you its REALLY cool to see them at car shows because they are rare everyone has a higher end car or a clone, i love the I6 cars also they look so different under the hood, then you'll just restore and replace what you have, otherwise if you want a deluxe interior to upgrade a standard interior you looking at 12,000$ in parts.

          so really define what you want, somebody already starting messing with that car putting the mach 1 hood on it. but i'm sure they didn't use the correct mach 1 hood springs to replace the standard hood springs. the mach 1 hood is much heavier then the stock hood and needed beefier springs to keep it from falling on your head while you work under the hood.

          so again get the car in your hands, jack it up get it on stands, get under it and inspect everything take pictures. take a screw driver and start poking around get the loose undercoat off and look behind it.

          then look at the engine bay, look around take pictures. look at the condition of the wiring see if the wire insulator covers are dry rotted, i found a TON of dry rot at exposed connections and plugs, half my harness cracked apart just disconnecting it. the covers are important because they are color coded so take pictures.

          you might want to power wash the car all over just get all the dirt and junk off and see what you really have.

          then go through the motor if your keeping it. its going to be a learning curve and money curve.

          I've re-adjusted my expectations many times and had to compromise.

          some people go into a project like this expect to wash all the grime off the car and have it be perfect underneath and all it needed was a little elbow grease then john cusack gets the girl and drives off into the sunset in a black camaro.
          my movie dream ended when my mint 72 mach 1 showed up on a flat bed with 4 flat tires and a hornet nest where the dome light was suppose to be.

          just temper your fear and excitement, go slow at first see what you have and what you want to do, get lots of reference material together then start with the least intrusive stuff looking at things and looking at diagnostic gauge readouts.

          Anything can be fixed, you could start with the roof of a car and build a car out of it, but it will take time and money and sanity.

          always relax and take a step back 'don't panic' we can and want to help.
          Offline 10-06-2010 01:06 PM
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          vamach1



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            Post: #5
            RE: Received Some Pics

            I want to know two things. Why do people paint parts under the hood strange colors and who lets a car go to crap like this?
            Unless this car has some rare options it better have been very cheap from the looks of it. This would normally be a project for an experienced restorer.
            Lot of people can sand, prime and paint but to do a car right is a whole other story. You should always be realistic about how much work you can do yourself.
            Do yo have the skills and the place to work on it. Add up all the costs for the car, parts and labor and then compare that cost to what $15K+ will buy.
            While that may sound like a lot at first, if you buy a good car you will save yourself a lot of time and money in the long run.

            (10-06-2010 01:06 PM)72HCODE Wrote:  the thing is you don't have the car yet.

            it really has to be in front of you, in your hands to see how bad things are.

            in this situation i would want to thoroughly inspect this car from stem to stern.

            then you need to figure out what you want this car to be. It tell you flat out for a regular 71 car based on what i see in the pictures you are already under water as far as cost to sell ratio.

            if you want this car to be original some things will cost more and somethings will cost less.

            the engine will cost more because you may need a total rebuild remember the car is 39 years old if that engine is original and has not been used in more then a few years and depending on storage it might be gone from the get go.

            i had an engine that was crappily rebuilt sometime in 2000 .30 over then sat around for what seemed like 5 years, and had major rust pitting in the cylinder walls with the type of damage you would find if the engine heads were left off the motor and rain water was allowed to get in. i get it, it runs real bad and have to dump 5K for another rebuild just 6 years later according to receipts i found and if the Original owner is to be believed just 6000 miles later(i believe that was a big lie).

            you need to get a lot more info out of the person you got it from.

            how long did they own it?
            when was it last on the road?
            why did it stop being driven?
            how long ago was it last started?
            general maintenance?
            was it stored outside or inside?

            I see a picture of a car with no air cleaner base on it, anything from rain water to mice could of gotten inside and remember depending on where the engine stoped on its rotation any number of valves can be in the open position allowing rain water right into the engine where it could of frozen in the winter and busted the block internally.

            that is why i say really think about what you want the car to be, in the end if you want the car to be a mach 1 clone then stop now, and get a mach 1 instead to start, because just having the 05 in the Vin bumps the valve up on resale at least 10K. then from there is different levels of mach 1 trim that again bump the value up.

            if you want an upgraded suspension over ford stock, then your going to have the disadvantage of not having a staggered rear shock and sway bar setup, i'm in this boat when i got into my car i didn't even know about the competition suspension i assumed they all had it, and didn't even know about the fold down rear seats.

            if you stick with stock mechanical bolt on parts then the parts are cheap, suspension will cost you about 1000$ for a total rebuild, if you go after market you could easily throw 5000$ into the suspension and then have all kind of issues to solve, like camber and ackerman angles.

            if you have a standard interior in good shape then sticking with it and making repairs will be cheaper then swaping out parts and finding all the brackets you may be missing.

            example my car had a deluxe interior, it was originally Vermillion(red) colored. somebody had gone inside and spray bombed it black, i literally mean somebody went into the car with a spray can of black paint and just started spraying over the interior seats and all to make it black colored. not only that but parts were missing, parts had disintegrated because of the sun, and age and abuse, and then everything was covered in black mold because the interior was soaking wet from roof and window leaks. my trunk was a lake when i got the car.

            so i had to start with a few metal interior parts that needed to be stripped down, then i had to hunt down EVERYTHING else. this was in a time when 71-73 parts reproduction barely existed, materials alone cost me over 10,000$ my final cost might be 15,000$ i will never know i burned the bank statement. basically it was like having a car with a standard interior and then converting it to a deluxe, even though i had a deluxe interior to start, condition means a lot. it took me 2 years to get 90% of the parts together and restore them when i could not find a reproduction part, would of been cheaper to by another car.

            so i recommend trying to get a car to start equiped with the options you want rather then try to convert a base model car into a high end car. this is part of the reason i've hesitated restoring my car further, i mean already i'm way underwater in it but i think about going out and getting a R code or M code or CJ car and starting a new project that would be closer to what i envisioned.

            if you want a plain jane 71 and let me tell you its REALLY cool to see them at car shows because they are rare everyone has a higher end car or a clone, i love the I6 cars also they look so different under the hood, then you'll just restore and replace what you have, otherwise if you want a deluxe interior to upgrade a standard interior you looking at 12,000$ in parts.

            so really define what you want, somebody already starting messing with that car putting the mach 1 hood on it. but i'm sure they didn't use the correct mach 1 hood springs to replace the standard hood springs. the mach 1 hood is much heavier then the stock hood and needed beefier springs to keep it from falling on your head while you work under the hood.

            so again get the car in your hands, jack it up get it on stands, get under it and inspect everything take pictures. take a screw driver and start poking around get the loose undercoat off and look behind it.

            then look at the engine bay, look around take pictures. look at the condition of the wiring see if the wire insulator covers are dry rotted, i found a TON of dry rot at exposed connections and plugs, half my harness cracked apart just disconnecting it. the covers are important because they are color coded so take pictures.

            you might want to power wash the car all over just get all the dirt and junk off and see what you really have.

            then go through the motor if your keeping it. its going to be a learning curve and money curve.

            I've re-adjusted my expectations many times and had to compromise.

            some people go into a project like this expect to wash all the grime off the car and have it be perfect underneath and all it needed was a little elbow grease then john cusack gets the girl and drives off into the sunset in a black camaro.
            my movie dream ended when my mint 72 mach 1 showed up on a flat bed with 4 flat tires and a hornet nest where the dome light was suppose to be.

            just temper your fear and excitement, go slow at first see what you have and what you want to do, get lots of reference material together then start with the least intrusive stuff looking at things and looking at diagnostic gauge readouts.

            Anything can be fixed, you could start with the roof of a car and build a car out of it, but it will take time and money and sanity.

            always relax and take a step back 'don't panic' we can and want to help.
            (This post was last modified: 10-06-2010 06:29 PM by vamach1.)
            Offline 10-06-2010 06:21 PM
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            rocketfoot


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              Post: #6
              RE: Received Some Pics

              I gotta admit that half the fun of these cars is the restoration phase! No doubt, driving the Mach 1 is fun, but I also enjoy the challenge and hands on work required to bring the 72 Coupe back to life! I guess it all depends on what you like...
              Offline 10-07-2010 05:22 AM
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              cobra3073


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                Post: #7
                RE: Received Some Pics

                One of the things that is so nice about our hobby is the fact that EVERYONE can utilize WHATEVER approach they feels works for them. Not everyone likes the same finished product and that is alright in my book. As many of you may have gathered, I am not a "numbers matching", every "screw in the right shade" sort of person, BUT I respect and admire those who use that approach. I say long live diversity!

                Some of us have and enjoy using our "disposable" income to get to our goals; others enjoy the "thrill" of doing things ourselves; others are happiest using a combination of the two. In the end, we all (hopefully) get to the same place - - enjoyment of the hobby.

                A key focus of this site has been (and I hope continue to be) the acceptance of ALL in their respective approach. With the different forums and the increasing levels of expertise that is available on this site, I do not believe we should deliberately discourage anyone or disparage anyone else projects based on our individual "likes."

                Remember, for years our 1971 - 1973 Mustangs have been the "outcasts" within the so-called mustang world. Lets not use the same "tactics" against those who share our interests (but not necessarily our approach) that have been used against us.

                Barry (Rocketfoot) "hit it on the head" in my book - - it comes down to what approach you want to take with YOUR project.

                We REALLY are in this together.

                BT
                Offline 10-07-2010 09:47 AM
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                72HCODE


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                  Post: #8
                  RE: Received Some Pics

                  i hope i didn't come off as somebody that was ragging on anybodies approach.
                  Offline 10-07-2010 09:53 AM
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                  cobra3073


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                    Post: #9
                    RE: Received Some Pics

                    No, it is not necessarily about this thread but I have noticed some "traces" of "elitism" creeping into some of the posts on other forums.

                    I just thought I would take this opportunity to reiterate what I think we are "all about" as it relates to our hobby. We do not want to be "like all the other" sites as it relates to negativity.

                    The post above is not directed at anyone in particular but is meant to be a reminder which I may periodically post on other forums.

                    BT
                    Offline 10-07-2010 10:08 AM
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                    vamach1



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                      Post: #10
                      RE: Received Some Pics

                      Being in the hobby for 30 years I've seen a lot. I've seen people get in over their heads, I seen a lot of cars that in my opinion are tacky, and I've met people that are coucours snobs, and I have seen a lot of cars rot away because the owner is going to fix it up someday or they watch an auction and feel their plain jane coupe will sell for big bucks someday. Having said that I have seen people take a basket case and turn it into a really nice car. We would all like to think that will happen with every Mustang but that just does not always happen. I have never owned any 72-73 Mustang (I have had five) that I planned to make money off of and I never had the time to restore them because I did not need to - they were all pretty solid cars that I could improve over time but still drive around. I apologize if I offend anyone for being candid and realistic. For whatever reason our cars will never have the following of the 65-70 Mustangs and I'm fine with that. Also for whatever reason I see a lot of 71-73 Mustangs for sale that are butchered and neglected and that makes me appreciate mine even more that have ben well taken care by me and the original owners.


                      (10-07-2010 10:08 AM)cobra3073 Wrote:  No, it is not necessarily about this thread but I have noticed some "traces" of "elitism" creeping into some of the posts on other forums.

                      I just thought I would take this opportunity to reiterate what I think we are "all about" as it relates to our hobby. We do not want to be "like all the other" sites as it relates to negativity.

                      The post above is not directed at anyone in particular but is meant to be a reminder which I may periodically post on other forums.

                      BT
                      (This post was last modified: 10-07-2010 08:14 PM by vamach1.)
                      Offline 10-07-2010 04:23 PM
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